The chops myth. - Page 4

shrimpflea · #61 12-26-2012, 11:45 PM

I don't have chops and I don't have groove but I do have a good sense of humor....and that's enough sometimes.

BassEnthusiast · #62 12-27-2012, 10:43 AM

Listened to Guns N' Roses-"Rockey Queen" (from Appetite For Destruction) this morning....

Great rhythm section groove on that one, pretty funky for a hard rock band. I don't think Duff McKagan is a virtuoso....but he really grooved his butt off on that album...

Rev J · #63 12-27-2012, 03:04 PM

Someone on here said that one should have just enough chops to play the music they are playing. I strongly disagree. I think one should have alot more chops then they need to play the music they are playing.

I've read/seen interviews with Victor Wooten and Marcus Miller where the site Bruce Lee as an influence. Bruce Lee had enough technique with Martial Arts to kill someone but he didn't use all of them. To me it's better to know a technique you don't need then to need a technique that you don't have.

C/S,
Rev J

TBAR Shane · #64 12-27-2012, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev J

Someone on here said that one should have just enough chops to play the music they are playing. I strongly disagree. I think one should have alot more chops then they need to play the music they are playing.

I've read/seen interviews with Victor Wooten and Marcus Miller where the site Bruce Lee as an influence. Bruce Lee had enough technique with Martial Arts to kill someone but he didn't use all of them. To me it's better to know a technique you don't need then to need a technique that you don't have.

C/S,
Rev J

I agree with this. It's always seemed ideal to me to be able to pull off more than I need to in most situations. Not because I want to show off (I usually don't even like taking a solo), but because having that technical headroom allows for a lot of mental/technical relaxation. As a result everything just becomes more malleable.

Raymeous · #65 12-28-2012, 09:21 AM

"Groove vs. Chops", or in guitar speak "Technique vs. Feel", are truly stupid debates.

These concepts do not have to be mutually exclusive, but most of the musicians that I've met seem to think that they are. You CAN groove with chops and you can use technique to imply a certain feeling. It doesn't have to be 12 bar blues or pentatonic scales to have heart. I feel sorry for those that think that's the case. They're missing out on so much.

Learn the chops and techniques so that you can express yourself better, and have a broader vocabulary with which to do so.

Rant over.

T-MOST · #66 12-28-2012, 01:08 PM

To me having "chops" means you can do it all. Nice groove, musical taste as well as technical ability and everything else that makes a really good bassist.

sobie18 · #67 12-29-2012, 02:15 PM

Think about the classical musicians who had to play the great arrangements, symphonies, ballets and such from Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, etc. Now, I am guessing most of these cats had chops. Reading chops, endurance chops, speed, agility, etc.

Bass players better have some damn endurance in their chops...

ksandvik · #68 12-29-2012, 02:17 PM

For me chops means that you go up on stage at a jam and someone starts a non-blues song without announcing style, name or key and you play along after 300 milliseconds.

obimark · #69 12-29-2012, 02:36 PM

The problem is you have to define these things- what's a Chop, what's a groove?? someone said AC/DC has no groove- WRONG!
I'd say Ac/DC is 90% groove, and Cliff Williams plays 8th notes like noone else, has a unique groove to them.

If chops is doing 1/32 note slapping with all kinds of wankery, then frankly the world is better off WITHOUT it.

To me chops is knowing a lot of songs, and a lot of typical basslines, and being able to throw fills in where they BELONG. Not wanking on a song, by tapping and slapping.
Groove is something that is harder to do the MORe chops you throw in. Some Rush songs have some groove with chops, some do not.

I'd say changing time signatures is a SUREfire way to lose any groove you may have, hate this about Dream Theater, sometimes they actually have a pretty good groove going, but they kill it after 4 bars and switch time signatures. Same goes for some old Metallica.

Saw a wanker guy at a jam, he couldn't even groove neough to make it thru ONE Song. But he sure did some slap on his 5 string, too bad it didn't have ANYTHING to do with anything anyone else on stage was playing. FAIL.

sobie18 · #70 12-29-2012, 02:55 PM

I think chops is more of the ability and the capacity of skill you have developed.

I've met a lot of players get into ruts and hit brick walls with their playing because they didn't have the know-how or the ability to play past what they already knew. All chops and no soul makes for a boring side show. Same goes for all technique and no musicality. Your skills & abilities all get rolled into one. I'd rather haul around a tool box full of musical tools I have acquired over the years as opposed to using/knowing only how to accomplish one or two certain licks/skills.

Ya gotta broaden your horizons and expand musically. Open your ears, mind, heart and soul.

The beauty of music is that you'll never know it all. Always strive to improve.

mcm · #71 12-29-2012, 02:58 PM

Chops are great but many people have too many. For example comparing steve vai to chuck berry. Which one u wanna hear??

sobie18 · #72 12-29-2012, 03:02 PM

steelbed45 · #73 12-29-2012, 03:05 PM

Rockin Mike · #74 12-29-2012, 03:10 PM

There are cats who practice scales scales scales, and they can solo all day, and do the right hand tapping like Eddie Van Halen, and then you ask them to play a song like "Tush" and it's sloppy.

Timing is a separate skill and has to be practiced specifically either with a metronome or by playing along with songs.

Grooving is when you play a song and it flows so good it's like your bass is singing. It includes muting, inflections, dynamics, timing, and variations on timing like laying back and pushing.

mcm · #75 12-29-2012, 04:09 PM

Vai? He's for dorks.

socialleper · #76 12-29-2012, 04:52 PM

Both terms are a little vague, but to my mind "chops" are the technical skills to play something right, pick something up quickly and be flexible enough to mold into most situations. Technique is part of this in that sometimes playing a certain way is what the song calls for, and as a bass player you need to have the ear to know what that is as well as the ability to do it. I wouldn't say "chops" is about "over playing" as some people have suggested.
Now groove is entirely subjective. One man's groove is another man's snooze fest; while yet another man's groove is another man's showing off. Here's something to remember about bass players: they are some of the more judgmental, self abusive musicians in the world. We are constantly, quietly, critiquing everything every other bass player does. So "he has chops, but can he groove" is a way to compliment someone while still reserving judgement.

Brad Johnson · #77 12-29-2012, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev J

Someone on here said that one should have just enough chops to play the music they are playing. I strongly disagree. I think one should have alot more chops then they need to play the music they are playing.

I've read/seen interviews with Victor Wooten and Marcus Miller where the site Bruce Lee as an influence. Bruce Lee had enough technique with Martial Arts to kill someone but he didn't use all of them. To me it's better to know a technique you don't need then to need a technique that you don't have.

C/S,
Rev J

I agree. It's much better to be capable than restricted.