Chris Squire vs Geddy Lee

[4001]

Originally Posted by Duke21

Same thing can be said about Geddy past Moving Pictures, not by me but many others.

Time to re-visit Power Windows and Hold Your Fire...even Presto (Show Don't Tell)
Signals too.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by 4001

Time to re-visit Power Windows and Hold Your Fire...even Presto (Show Don't Tell)

Power Windows is ok, Hold Your Fire is just great. The Mission is one of my favorite Rush songs, which also demonstrate how great is Geddy. Vocals, synth, bass and bass pedals all in one song.

[Duke21]

But I feel that we have quite a different taste of what we like most about Rush!
You probably like better the harder stuff, I like better the more melodic part of Rush.
Closer to the heart, The Mission, Bravado, The Pass, Tom Sawyer, Xanadu, Time Will Stand still, The Trees, Resist etc.

[SquireMan4001]

I think you're making my point for me: truly "progressive" musicians push the envelope, try new things, try to get better musically. Geddy never stopped doing that. Whether or not I liked a particular phase (and the synth heavy 80's were a low point for me), I was always impressed that Geddy went there.

Squire should have been that guy, also. The Relayer Tour shouldn't have been his high point--it should have been an early peak. Once you get past 1976 the "high moments" for Chris are few and far between--and forget about innovation.

And, yes, his playing on Yes Symphonic was embarrassing. Do you play? Squire has allowed himself to become a one-trick pony. He's good with scales, but that's about it. He sticks to variations on the same theme nowadays. Geddy Lee? He throws complicated little flourishes, chords, harmonics, pops, and triads out there like it's nothing. Often in the space of a few second "fill".

He walks all over Squire, backs up, and walks over him again. Real bass players know this.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by SquireMan4001

I think you're making my point for me: truly "progressive" musicians push the envelope, try new things, try to get better musically. Geddy never stopped doing that. Whether or not I liked a particular phase (and the synth heavy 80's were a low point for me), I was always impressed that Geddy went there.

Squire should have been that guy, also. The Relayer Tour shouldn't have been his high point--it should have been an early peak. Once you get past 1976 the "high moments" for Chris are few and far between--and forget about innovation.

And, yes, his playing on Yes Symphonic was embarrassing. Do you play? Squire has allowed himself to become a one-trick pony. He's good with scales, but that's about it. He sticks to variations on the same theme nowadays. Geddy Lee? He throws complicated little flourishes, chords, harmonics, pops, and triads out there like it's nothing. Often in the space of a few second "fill".

He walks all over Squire, backs up, and walks over him again. Real bass players know this.

I play but I'm not real.

[CBRXJ]

Originally Posted by SquireMan4001

As a long-time Squire fan, this pains me to say it, but Squire isn't in Geddy's class.

Maybe up until the mid to late 70's, Squire was still on top, but that's part of the problem. Whereas Chris never really went anywhere from there, Geddy continued to explode. I guess you could say the same thing about Yes in general. They went from most progressive to most stagnant. The players in Rush took the baton from Yes and have continued growing and increasing in musicianship every year.

Where they stand now, it's painful to even think about Squire "vs" Lee. You watch any Rush concert DVD, you see a Master on top of his form. He can sit in the groove, he can play up front, he can play funky, and he can shred.

I just watched Yes Symphonic, and I see an old man noodling. It's absolutely cringe-worthy. What happened to Chris Squire from '75?

This is how I see it. I have not really listened to any new Yes since The early 80's. I went to youtube to try and check out some some newer C.S but ran into a solo that made me want to ...well ....stop looking. Can anyone recommend some Later than 90210, or was that 0U812 ? YES or C.S. to change my mind.

[4001]

Originally Posted by Duke21

But I feel that we have quite a different taste of what we like most about Rush!
You probably like better the harder stuff, I like better the more melodic part of Rush.
Closer to the heart, The Mission, Bravado, The Pass, Tom Sawyer, Xanadu, Time Will Stand still, The Trees, Resist etc.

There's not too much Rush I don't like. I'd say that the only album that I'm not completly wild about is Roll The Bones yet there are some really good tracks on it.
I've seen them 44 times since the Moving Pictures tour and have immersed myself completly in their music since 1979.
I do happen to like the 1974-1982 stuff a bit more but only just a bit more than the 1984-present material. Clockwork Angels is a really strong album and was a complete joy to see that stuff live and I'm looking forward to the second tour leg this summer.

[4001]

Now, I am just about as much a fan of Chris Squire as I am of Geddy Lee.

YES-Tormato, 1969-1978, think about that, 9 years worth of material that is just so mindblowing that few others could even come up with a tenth of something like that in twice the time, and all of the touring inbetween???
Are you kidding me?
Squire is just an incredible bassist. I didn't even mention the bass work on Drama.
For me, I think Chris Squire was at his live peak in 1978-79.

It was Geddy Lee and Chris Squire that influenced my bass playing and caused me to spend thousands on Rickenbackers, much to the liking of Rickenbacker, of course.

[SquireMan4001]

Look, we can disagree about when Squire's peak was--I say it was '75, you say '78 or '79--but it's the same thing. Whether 6 years or 9 years, that's not enough. Squire (and the rest of Yes) stagnated way too early.

Geddy's continued to grow as a bassist for over 30 years. Technically, I don't think a 25 year old Geddy could hang with the guy touring right now. Can you say the same for Squire? I was so disappointed to see him resorting to "noodling" which somehow still impresses the fanboys (and non-players).

It's not about slamming Squire. It's about recognizing that there is a lot of wasted potential. However influential those 6 years may have been, I'm not going to try and compare it to what Geddy's done and continues to do--because the fact is, I wish that was Squire also. Trying to prop up Squire to be his equal is, frankly, pathetic. I prefer to deal in reality, even if that reality is a little painful.

[SquireMan4001]

I think that Chris Squire fans care if he "noodles", instead of trying to play the song accurately and correctly. Chris Squire fans care that he's stopped innovating long ago.

Obviously, you care, too, since you're posting in the same internet forum. What a stupid way to try to invalidate someone else's opinion.

[SquireMan4001]

"Internet troll"...cool term, Grandpa. Do you even know what it means?

I'm not yelling anything at Chris Squire because, like the vast majority of his long-time fans, I'm no longer making the effort to see him play live. I've seen his work on blu ray and Youtube, and I'm suitably unimpressed.

Since I actually am a Chris Squire fan (and not an elderly fanboy trying to recapture past glories), I'd prefer not to see one of my heroes as a fat man in spandex stumble through Heart of the Sunrise and just noodle through countless others while 50 year old males who never picked up a bass in their lives think it's the greatest thing they've ever seen.

Does that hit a little close to home?

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by mjac28

You are every celebrity musicians nightmare some guy who comes up after the show and tell them "hey you messed up that one part it didn't sound like the record? other than that it was good" most folks who go to the shows aren't there just to see Chris and most around 90% probably don't play bass or even know the bass parts and don't know when he's messing up? this is the reason celebrity musicians avoid these forums like the plague if you want him to sound like the record every single time and be flawless buy a CD and listen in your room.

You're not very intelligent. I'm sure I'm not the first person to point this out to you, but let me illustrate: I've seen Rush at least once (usually at least twice) on every leg they've performed since. I'm not complaining about Geddy's performance...because he's PLAYING IT RIGHT, Grandpa. In cases where they stretch out and veer off the song, I'm still not complaining because what they're doing is suitably impressive and technically fulfilling. NO one's complaining about Geddy Lee's chops.

This thread deals with "Lee vs. Squire", and that's where I've drawn the line and given my reasons for a thumb up in Lee's favor (despite starting out as a massive Squire fan who considered Lee nowhere near him in the mid 70's). Squire has gone the other way: less innovative, stagnant, a shadow of his former glory.

So, I've given my vote in this thread and backed it up with my opinions--which is all anyone can offer here, really. Several others agree. But YOU think that makes me a troll...so be it, Gramps. Your opinion means nothing. You're actually getting upset that someone HAS an opinion in a thread that ASKS FOR AN OPINION.

That makes you about as intelligent as a Justin Bieber fan. I can see a lot of similarities, except for about 65 years difference.

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by mjac28

When you get a signature bass come back and tell us. I'm out of here you sound tired and so does your argument and yes I'm a Grandpa retired Grandpa that is so go enjoy your work week and I'll sit here and listen to some of my old LP's and relax peace out ! ( that's what you kids say right?)

LOL! When I get a "Signature Bass" come back and tell who, you?

How about when you're good enough to actually survive on what you make gigging, come back and tell us all about it?

[mjac28]

All of my posts have been deleted what am I arguing for? I'm not even fifty and I have been retired for over five years my fighting days are over I just relax these days you can like or dislike whomever you please and for whatever reason you choose I apologize for my earlier comments.

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by mjac28

All of my posts have been deleted what am I arguing for? I'm not even fifty and I have been retired for over five years my fighting days are over I just relax these days you can like or dislike whomever you please and for whatever reason you choose I apologize for my earlier comments.

Truce? I have strong opinions but where did I say I dislike Squire? Look at my handle. I wish he was doing more, because I think he's capable. That doesn't mean I dislike him.

If this was 1986 and internet was around, I'd be saying much the same about Geddy Lee. I really hated that synth-fascination he had then...totally pushed his bass playing in the background. But the fact is, he recovered, and then some. Chris Squire, not so much. But as long as he's kicking I still have hope.

[groooooove]

chris squire hands down, to me.

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by 4001

There's not too much Rush I don't like. I'd say that the only album that I'm not completly wild about is Roll The Bones yet there are some really good tracks on it.
I've seen them 44 times since the Moving Pictures tour and have immersed myself completly in their music since 1979.
I do happen to like the 1974-1982 stuff a bit more but only just a bit more than the 1984-present material. Clockwork Angels is a really strong album and was a complete joy to see that stuff live and I'm looking forward to the second tour leg this summer.

Roll The Bones took me years to get into. I think I resisted it mainly because of the "rap" section in the title track (which unfortunately got radio play). But, that aside, it's a gem of an album and has grown on me. "Ghost of a Chance" and "Bravado" are very much not typical Rush songs, but very moving. Dreamline is great, the Instrumental, and the funky feel of the title track is also very well done.

I think it suffered too because two years later they released Counterparts....which was just a MONSTER album for Rush fans like me that wanted a return to their harder edge.

[Greevus]

My girlfriend is considerably younger, and I have converted her into a metalhead/rocker. I was playing "Temples of Syrinx" a week ago and she said "When did RUSH have a girl singer?". I played the isolated bass track to "Roundabout" just the other day and she said "God that sounds SLOPPY". She needs more work.

Love 'em both. How can you as a player NOT dig "The Fish" or "YYZ"? Obviously Geddy loved some serious YES. Hell, they even wore the same drapery and had that same naked dude in the streets in a pentagram or star of david or something.

I'll take GEDDY for the songs although I pay with a pick. I'm in a trio and sing also....

[Duke21]

Is 4001 and Squireman4001 the same person? Almost sounds like it. One of them is slightly more polite then the other.

Now look, this is my last post here on this silly thread. Geddy and Chris are two of the best best players I've listened to, and both amaze me in their capabilities.
Chris was the one that made me wanting to pick up the bass. No actually it was Rutherford, but the I've heard Chris.
Chris to me is still the best, no matter how much crap you want to through on him. Just listen to the latest Yes live CD. I agree Geddy is pushing himself forward and his clockwork work is stunning. Still he is not as melodic as Chris. His bass lines have lots of drive but they do not have this melodic way of doing something to a song such as Squires work.
Btw, Chris played int The Syn, Conspiracy and Squackett in the latest years, all different prog rock bands. In addition he played many types of basses, 4, 5, 6 and triple neck bass. So the man is still a prog man bass player.
I do have the Geddy Lee sig jazz, and a 4003 Ric. My dream bass is the 4001CS but they are rare and very expensive.

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by Duke21

Is 4001 and Squireman4001 the same person? Almost sounds like it. One of them is slightly more polite then the other.

So, two people that agree Lee is better than Squire, has to mean they are one and the same person? Brilliant. Look around out there....there are millions of us. We're all the same person, too.

Originally Posted by Duke21

Now look, this is my last post here on this silly thread.

Promise?

Originally Posted by Duke21

Chris to me is still the best, no matter how much crap you want to through on him. Just listen to the latest Yes live CD.

OK, so you prefer Chris nowadays. This thread invites the opinion, and you're welcome to your viewpoint. I wish you could handle an opposing viewpoint a little better.

If you say you like Squire better and cite his new work, I have to wonder if your ears and eyes work, but I can handle the opinion without flipping out or giving a "this is silly....now here's MY take on it" response. If you want more anecdotal evidence, look around at this generation of bassists. How many cite Lee as an influence versus Squire? I'd say it's at a 9/1 ratio. All young bassists at least know who Lee is.

It's a shame the same can't be said for Chris, but that's his own fault. He's playing a casino near me next month...I won't bother wasting my time. Because, I _have_ heard him lately.