Chris Squire vs Geddy Lee

[troy mcclure]

I prefer Chris Squire, but mostly because I prefer Yes. I always find these type of questions absurd. What if Ian Hill was in Rush and Geddy played bass for Judas Priest? Both bands would suck. How would Yes sound with Cliff Williams on bass?
The bass player has to play for the band he is in.
Geddy is great with Rush and Squire great with Yes. It took Jeff Berlin to fill his shoes in Anderson , Brufurd , Wakeman and Howe.

[Mike in Chicago]

Squire

[Duke21]

.

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by troy mcclure

I prefer Chris Squire, but mostly because I prefer Yes. I always find these type of questions absurd.

Absurd, but fun to read people's responses. I remember these questions being asked back in the mid to late 70's in various magazines. FWIW, back then it was Squire...no contest. Geddy was seen as the young pup, unproven.

On a related note, I saw Lee mentioned Yes when asked about his recent RRHOF induction. He said something like "It's bittersweet, because you have bands like Yes which were hugely influential that are still not in and deserve to be." I have no doubt he'll give another shout out to Squire and Yes at the actual ceremony. The guys in Rush are good like that.

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by Duke21

And these shoes were a bit too big, even for Jeff.

LOL...did he have difficulty playing the music, technically? Nope. He plays the material better than Chris does THESE days, that's for sure. The guy played Heart of the Sunrise flawlessly without a pick...let's see Chris try that.

Of course Yes fans prefer Chris Squire over Jeff Berlin (or anyone else for that matter). That doesn't prove anything, however. If Adam Clayton of U2 was replaced by Geddy Lee, U2 fans would be upset also.

[4001]

Originally Posted by SquireMan4001

Look, we can disagree about when Squire's peak was--I say it was '75, you say '78 or '79--but it's the same thing.

I agree that his creative peak was in '75 but I just thought his live performance peak was in '78-'79.

[Rickengeezer]

Originally Posted by SquireMan4001

LOL...did he have difficulty playing the music, technically? Nope. He plays the material better than Chris does THESE days, that's for sure. The guy played Heart of the Sunrise flawlessly without a pick...let's see Chris try that.

I thought Berlin's feel for most of that recorded performance (I have the CD called An Evening of Yes Music Plus) was sterile and uninspired. He hit the notes, but seemed to play it as if he was bored and his tone was forgettable. In fairness, he did fill in at the last minute for that performance because Tony Levin was sick. I would have much rather had a recording with Levin on it.

Of course, the main difference to me is that Squire WROTE the Heart of the Sunrise bassline. Given that same song structure, Berlin wouldn't have come up with that bassline in a million years...it's just not his style. Berlin is a great player, but I don't think the classic run of early 70's Yes albums would have been nearly as successful with Berlin on bass.

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by Rickengeezer

I thought Berlin's feel for most of that recorded performance (I have the CD called An Evening of Yes Music Plus) was sterile and uninspired. He hit the notes, but seemed to play it as if he was bored and his tone was forgettable. In fairness, he did fill in at the last minute for that performance because Tony Levin was sick. I would have much rather had a recording with Levin on it.

I don't disagree with this. I was responding mainly to Duke's assertion that Berlin somehow couldn't hack Squire's material.

What you say is 100% correct. In that vein, it's impossible for ANY player to replace another bassist (of even modest accomplishments) and satisfy the hardcore fans. That has nothing to do with technical ability, though. I said if Adam Clayton of U2 were replaced by Geddy Lee, U2 fans would be upset. That's just how it is.

Originally Posted by Rickengeezer

Of course, the main difference to me is that Squire WROTE the Heart of the Sunrise bassline. Given that same song structure, Berlin wouldn't have come up with that bassline in a million years...it's just not his style. Berlin is a great player, but I don't think the classic run of early 70's Yes albums would have been nearly as successful with Berlin on bass.

I agree 100%. That's part of the absurdity when asking "who's better?". It's really going to come down to which music you PREFER, since we can't coldly detach ourselves from music that we feel something for. It's also why, when asking a metalhead who the "best bassists" are, he's going to say Jason Newstead, Steve Harris, etc. We're all subconsciously biased.

That doesn't mean these "polls" can't be informative or fun. Despite my feelings that Squire really hasn't done much of interest since the late 70's, I think it's cool that so many people here are giving the guy props. I would have to give some of his 80's-on material another chance, but the early to mid 80's Rush is an era I just completely and subconsciously wiped from my playlist, too.

[Rickengeezer]

Originally Posted by SquireMan4001

"Internet troll"...cool term, Grandpa. Do you even know what it means?

Since I actually am a Chris Squire fan (and not an elderly fanboy trying to recapture past glories), I'd prefer not to see one of my heroes as a fat man in spandex stumble through Heart of the Sunrise and just noodle through countless others while 50 year old males who never picked up a bass in their lives think it's the greatest thing they've ever seen.

Does that hit a little close to home?

Grandpa here...let me give you a little history lesson, sonny boy.

In 1935, a baseball player named Babe Ruth hit .181 and struck out more than a third of the time he batted. A fat old guy in flannel oozing wasted potential.

Guess that makes him a pretty crappy baseball player?

I still wish I'd been able to go see Ruth bat, even in 1935.

[4001]

Heart of the Sunrise is my favorite bass work from Chris Squire. When it comes to that track even Geddy will bow to that greatness.
I think Squire got a bit more sloppy when he started adding the lbs.
Seriously.
When I watch him fret these days the sheer size of those fingers look like it is more difficult for him to play the original parts.
And, age is a factor too. He is slowing down. We all do/will when we get older. It's a fact of life for most of us. Dosent take away from the great work Squire did with Yes.
Geddy will slow down at some point but the way Rush basslines work with their overall approach to music will make that slightly harder to detect. His voice has already matured and he has complained of arthritis starting to affect his abilities.
Getting old sucks.
I'm just glad for all of the combined music and sheer talent that these two have produced and shown to us for all these years. They BOTH have influenced me and one compliments the other.
Be glad they were both around so we could enjoy what they did.

[4001]

Originally Posted by SquireMan4001

Despite my feelings that Squire really hasn't done much of interest since the late 70's, I think it's cool that so many people here are giving the guy props. I would have to give some of his 80's-on material another chance, but the early to mid 80's Rush is an era I just completely and subconsciously wiped from my playlist, too.

I think there were some really great bass parts on songs like "Our Song" , "I'm Running", "Endless Dream" and others. There are more than a feww Squire gems on the post Drama albums but not to the extent of his earlier output in the 70's, But then again, I wouldn't expect that either Lee or Squire approaches their role as a bassist to re-hash their earlier works just because fans want to hear only one side of their playing.
Hey, "Owner of a Lonley Heart" is simple but Squire's bass part works perfectly with it. Dosent need to be like "Ritual"

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by Rickengeezer

Grandpa here...let me give you a little history lesson, sonny boy.

In 1935, a baseball player named Babe Ruth hit .181 and struck out more than a third of the time he batted. A fat old guy in flannel oozing wasted potential.

Guess that makes him a pretty crappy baseball player?

I still wish I'd been able to go see Ruth bat, even in 1935.

I guess I don't see how that's remotely comparable. In 1935, Babe Ruth had already played for 20 years and established himself as the best player in history.

If you think Chris Squire did the equivalent, that's your opinion and you're free to it. But as for me, I was always disappointed that he had a GREAT 6-8 year run and not a great 30+ year run (like Geddy Lee). That has been my only consistent criticism and I'm not wavering from it. I've seen him in the 80's, I've seen him in the 90's, I've seen him lately and I don't think he's playing at a high level. That's just how I see it.

The other problem with your analogy is that some of us HAVE seen Squire in his prime. If I never had, I would go to the local casino next month and check him out--just to say I did. But, since I've seen Squire at his peak, and all I see now is a husk, the last thing I'm going to do is go pay good money so I can feel bummed out that my hero is skipping notes and noodling his way through songs that made him a legend. No thanks--there are tribute bands I can go see and accomplish the same thing, with less sadness afterward.

[mam1862]

Two outstanding bass players. I appreciate the music of both bands. For everything he does in the studio and during his live performances Geddy gets the upper hand. Although these two are masters at their instrument, they are also very different. I could see how this could be a hard question for some answer.

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by 4001

Heart of the Sunrise is my favorite bass work from Chris Squire. When it comes to that track even Geddy will bow to that greatness.
I think Squire got a bit more sloppy when he started adding the lbs. Seriously.

Could be. I'm sure it doesn't help! I noticed him slipping in the 80's though, and I don't think he was all that big then. I always considered it to be a "resting on the laurels" issue. He took prog-rock very far and seemed to relish perceived competition from younger guys like Lee in the 70's...then it just seemed like he gave up and wanted to coast. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by 4001

And, age is a factor too. He is slowing down. We all do/will when we get older. It's a fact of life for most of us. Dosent take away from the great work Squire did with Yes.

No doubt. But, again, I saw cracks in the late 70's, early 80's. He wasn't old then, maybe late 30's. And my problem also is, I saw Geddy Lee play last September and I honestly don't think he's ever been better.

Originally Posted by 4001

I'm just glad for all of the combined music and sheer talent that these two have produced and shown to us for all these years. They BOTH have influenced me and one compliments the other. Be glad they were both around so we could enjoy what they did.

Amen. No matter what I think of Chris Squire's shelf life, his great years were hugely influential for me and did far more interesting work than dozens of other "name" bassists combined. It's just that this was a thread dealing with comparing the two, and it struck a raw nerve. When I see Rush live and how good Geddy has remained...it bothers me that I lost that feeling so many years ago with Squire. I would love to be excited to go see him play again.

But, I've been burned too many times by the guy. Oh well. To each his own.

[bassdude51]

Chris Squire vs Geddy Lee = too much treble!

[bigsnaketex]

chocolate or vanilla............hell, I like them both!!

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by SquireMan4001

You're not very intelligent. I'm sure I'm not the first person to point this out to you, but let me illustrate: I've seen Rush at least once (usually at least twice) on every leg they've performed since. I'm not complaining about Geddy's performance...because he's PLAYING IT RIGHT, Grandpa. In cases where they stretch out and veer off the song, I'm still not complaining because what they're doing is suitably impressive and technically fulfilling. NO one's complaining about Geddy Lee's chops.

This thread deals with "Lee vs. Squire", and that's where I've drawn the line and given my reasons for a thumb up in Lee's favor (despite starting out as a massive Squire fan who considered Lee nowhere near him in the mid 70's). Squire has gone the other way: less innovative, stagnant, a shadow of his former glory.

So, I've given my vote in this thread and backed it up with my opinions--which is all anyone can offer here, really. Several others agree. But YOU think that makes me a troll...so be it, Gramps. Your opinion means nothing. You're actually getting upset that someone HAS an opinion in a thread that ASKS FOR AN OPINION.

That makes you about as intelligent as a Justin Bieber fan. I can see a lot of similarities, except for about 65 years difference.

I don't really get the nastiness in this post.

Just stop.

[SquireMan4001]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I don't really get the nastiness in this post.

Just stop.

Probably because you didn't see the post I was replying to as it was deleted afterward.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by SquireMan4001

Probably because you didn't see the post I was replying to as it was deleted afterward.

Dude you have to relax a bit. I did comment about Berlin's lack of ability to fill up Squire's shoes, but then I've deleted my post as I didn't want to drag him into this thread due to your attitude which reminds me of a football fan . In your 10 first posts in TB you managed to through critics upon members intelligence, hearing or the ability to play.
So cut down on coffee and relax to time will stand still by Rush.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by SquireMan4001

Probably because you didn't see the post I was replying to as it was deleted afterward.

I saw the pot you quoted, when you posted it.

Usually, the post you quote is the post you are replying to.

Either way, it seems silly for people to get bent out of shape about who is a "better" bass player.