Cliff Burton... Make Me Understand

srxplayer · #1 07-20-2006, 01:05 AM

I'm probably gonna get flamed for this but I really need to understand something.

I have been listening to some old Metalica (circa 1986) over the last couple of days and I'm wondering what all the excitement is all about when people talk about the late Cliff Burton. I don't hear anything special tone wise or style wise. His bass line just seems to be adding low end to the fast rhythm guitar line. Lars is going crazy with kick drum and I can't seem to hear anything special going on with what Cliff Burton is playing.

I haven't listened to much Metalica and I'm not really a Metal fan but I have liked some of the early stuff I heard recently and I wanted to check out Burtons lines.

What Metalica CD or songs should I be listening to so I can hear what he was all about?

s.m.80808 · #2 07-20-2006, 01:47 AM

Didn't he practically teach the other guys how to play guitar?

I know that he studied with one of the best guitar teachers in the Bay Area.

Poop-Loops · #3 07-20-2006, 01:58 AM

He wrote or helped write many of those songs.

Also, the intro to For Whom the Bell Tolls is bass, many parts of Orion are bass, Call of Ktulu, etc.

I like Dave Ellefson a lot more as a bass player, but Cliff wrote better songs.

Though I admit, him dying kind of made him larger than he really was...

Elemetal · #4 07-20-2006, 02:19 AM

He added a technical stand for the music using his knowledge of theory and such which the rest of the band did not have experience with. James stated he doesn't even know how to write a note. Rather he could also solo like no ones buisness too rather like a Billy Sheehan. Also listen to orion and check out how he layered all his bass tracks and all that and all that. It's really well put together. Poop Loops I'd have to agree with you on the dying thing making him more than worth even though Cliff is probably one of my favourite bass players. When Cliff wrote something it wasnt just **** like it was ****ing good and it added melody and harmony to the song and all that ****. Most songs for the verse riffs didn't need a big big great bass thing because it would just be overdueing it. But check out his solo's in songs such as Four horsemen probably one of my favourites it just adds to the guitar solo so much and is very well written. Also the interlude solo in master of puppets. Middle part of Orion. The bass solo in orion. His live solo's and all that. He was just great. lol Nuff said.

Elemetal · #5 07-20-2006, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srxplayer

I'm probably gonna get flamed for this but I really need to understand something.

I have been listening to some old Metalica (circa 1986) over the last couple of days and I'm wondering what all the excitement is all about when people talk about the late Cliff Burton. I don't hear anything special tone wise or style wise. His bass line just seems to be adding low end to the fast rhythm guitar line. Lars is going crazy with kick drum and I can't seem to hear anything special going on with what Cliff Burton is playing.

I haven't listened to much Metalica and I'm not really a Metal fan but I have liked some of the early stuff I heard recently and I wanted to check out Burtons lines.

What Metalica CD or songs should I be listening to so I can hear what he was all about?

Metallica Circa 1986?? Master Of Puppets was out then I'm a big metallica fan but I've never heard of that album...

Poop-Loops · #6 07-20-2006, 02:27 AM

Hahaha! Circa just means "about". He's saying old Metallica (around 1986).

srxplayer · #7 07-20-2006, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemetal

Metallica Circa 1986?? Master Of Puppets was out then I'm a big metallica fan but I've never heard of that album...

It is the Master of Puppets CD that I'm talking about.

TheInsane · #8 07-20-2006, 08:59 AM

He did that Pulling Teeth bass solo on Kill Em All. He does interesting wha stuff on Call of Kthulu on Ride the Lightning. He also did a great job on Orion from Master of Puppets. Listen for his distorted bass solo in that song. Many people have mistaken it for being an electric guitar. It starts at 06:35. The melodic interlude before that is cool as well.

I do think he's overrated. probably because of the way he died. However Im not saying that he wasnt a great bassist because he was. He often added small things to songs and never went to far away from keeping down a steady low end.

SlavaF · #9 07-20-2006, 08:59 AM

I think part of it is that he played all those crazy 16 note rhythms with his fingers, while most metal bassists at the time were using picks. Now there are tons of super fast fingerstyle players, but back then Cliff's speed was mind-blowing, and pretty much unrivalled in metal.

And his songs and riffs kick massive amounts of ass (I'll always like Dave Mustaine better as a song/riff writer but that's a whole 'nother argument)

SlavaF · #10 07-20-2006, 09:04 AM

oh ya... as for songs,

Disposable Heroes, for some insane finger speed, and amazing endurance, the song's 8 minutes long!
Fight Fire With Fire is a favorite of mine, more crazy fast riffage
Anasthaesia is required listening for any bassist
The Call of Ktulu and Orion, I find them kinda boring but they have some good basslines.

morf · #11 07-20-2006, 09:17 AM

Get Kill Em All.

Petary791 · #12 07-20-2006, 10:14 AM

Just give "Anestesia Pulling Teeth", "Call of Ktulu", and "Orion" a listen and you'll understand.

And the intro of "Damage Inc" is all bass IIRC.

BrandonBass · #13 07-20-2006, 10:56 AM

While I agree that his death made him than he actually was, hes still a pretty darn good player. One of my main influences.

He can shred a bass pretty crazy, and the only reason he doesnt do that in everyone metallica song is because hes not a show-off mindless wanker. Plus, he seems like a very down-to-earth guy, my ****ing hero

He lets loose in this video, check it out. pretty neat solo in the beginning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1Y04...cliff%20burton

Audiophage · #14 07-20-2006, 11:01 AM

He introduced Metallica to a lot of the basic concepts of music theory and arrangement that he learned in college. He did tend to get a very guitar like sound with his leads which caused people to not realise who was playing what. And of course he did have a level of technicality that wasn't as common on rock bass guitar back then. Another great Metal bassist that died before his time and had as much of an impact on his band as Cliff was Roger Patterson of Athiest.

The intro to Damage Inc isn't bass, it was Cliff playing guitar. He probably later taught it to James or Kirk.

Join the Metallica Vault and download some of their live stuff from 1986 and before.

morf · #15 07-20-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonBass

While I agree that his death made him than he actually was, hes still a pretty darn good player. One of my main influences.

He can shred a bass pretty crazy, and the only reason he doesnt do that in everyone metallica song is because hes not a show-off mindless wanker. Plus, he seems like a very down-to-earth guy, my ****ing hero

He lets loose in this video, check it out. pretty neat solo in the beginning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1Y04...cliff%20burton

Hadnt seen that video. James singing is awful and Kirk and him aren't playing in time... Thank god Cliff is in there...

fenderx55 · #16 07-20-2006, 12:23 PM

I'm gonna have to agree with the guys above; his greatest contributions were probably his ability to arrange and his speed, something we're just used to hearing now... then again, I was born in '86, so what do I know about what people thought was mindblowing?

And yes, anytime someone with talent dies they become legend (see Jaco, Hendrix, Morrison).

TheInsane · #17 07-20-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophage

The intro to Damage Inc isn't bass, it was Cliff playing guitar. He probably later taught it to James or Kirk.

I think it is. We are talking about the part from 0:00 to 01:19. From what I heard its alot of layers of bass that Cliff created and then handed over to the other guys in Metallica.

FaithNoMan · #18 07-20-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophage

The intro to Damage Inc isn't bass, it was Cliff playing guitar. He probably later taught it to James or Kirk.

It wa Cliff playing bass...in fact, I have a copy of an interview where he states that it is bass indeed.

Elemetal · #19 07-20-2006, 04:03 PM

I have one thing to say. Look where Metallica is now without cliff. Think if Cliff was still alive they probably wouldn't have gone so mainstream. I'm not saying their music sucks now I'm just saying it's not as good as it could be.

havik180 · #20 07-20-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonBass

While I agree that his death made him than he actually was, hes still a pretty darn good player. One of my main influences.

He can shred a bass pretty crazy, and the only reason he doesnt do that in everyone metallica song is because hes not a show-off mindless wanker. Plus, he seems like a very down-to-earth guy, my ****ing hero

He lets loose in this video, check it out. pretty neat solo in the beginning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1Y04...cliff%20burton

All I can say about this vid is , who (on stage) is rockin harder or feelin it more than Cliff !? No one ! And you guys gotta remember that he was only 24 when he died , so who knows how much he could have progressed.

On another note here's another good solo vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_wGF...%20bass%20solo