FOR DISCUSSION:BUSY PLAYING

[bassonthebrain]

To preface, this is not aimed at solo players, you have your place. This is about holding down the rhythm section in a band or song.

I am like a lot of bass players who feel that less is more; get on the groove and stay there. However one of my favorite players is Jammerson, who is a very busy player. If you've ever tried playing his stuff, you know there are lots of notes in there and they're all over the place. I've never heard anyone say "I don't like his playing because it's too busy", or "He plays way too many notes".

Here's my questions:
1. What does Jammerson (or anyone else) do differently, if anything, that makes "busy" work?
2. When is "busy" ok?
3. When is "busy" necessary?

My thoughts
1. ? "he's a magic man, mama"
2. when the drum part is busy - playing with the cymbols rather than the kick and snare can tie a busy drummer back into the band
3. when there are lots of chord changes - keeping the bass part moving around when the chords are constantly changing keeps the song from beeing choppy

let me hear your thoughts

[Jazz Ad]

I think it's a timbre issue. If you have an obnoxious trebly tone or huge boomy lows, you need to play simple lines to support the song.
If you have a mellow tone that doesn't take over the rest of the band but gently rumbles in the back, it leaves more room for busy playing.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by bassonthebrain

What does Jammerson (or anyone else) do differently, if anything, that makes "busy" work?

"Busy" is almost always used in a perjorative way; if a bassist is described as being "busy" it usually has a negative connotation, implying something isn't working. With a guy like Jamerson -- or any other really excellent bassist who happens to play particularly Dense (as opposed to Spacious) lines -- they don't sound "busy", they just sound "freakin' awesome"

And the difference between "busy" and "freakin' awesome" imho is entirely due to GROOVE. Guys who play a lot of notes & sound "busy" just aren't really in the pocket. Guys who play a lot of notes & sound "freakin' awesome" are deep in the pocket, supertight, nailing it to the wall with impeccable precision (though not necessarily mathematical/metronomic precision). It's all about Feel, and it's a matter of nano-degrees. Guys who sound "freakin' awesome" possess The Fonk. Guys who sound "busy" do not.


(edit: feel free to replace "Guys" in the above paragraphs with "Bassists", I did not intend to suggest a gender discrepancy.)

[Terry Funk]

I think what separates Jamerson from the rest of the busy pack is that he wasn't busy for busy's sake. His lines never took away from the song, because he played with sensitivity to what the rest of the band was playing, while still grooving and being the centerpiece of the music. He also could be delightfully simple as well (early Supremes stuff, "My Girl", etc.). Sensitivity is the key, IMO.

[millsbass5]

IMO,your style can be very busy.As long as it's done tastefully.In fact,that's my favorite style of bass playing.Gee.....I wonder if that's why I despise 99% of country music?Not to knock anyone's favorite type of music,but,I just can't handle it.Too boring for me.

[JTE]

If you listen to those Motown mixes, you'll hear that they're way different from a typical rock band mix. Those lines like "Bernadtte" or "What's Goin' On" wouldn't work very well with Led Zepplin. Motown's arrangements leave a lot of sonic space for Jamerson, Babbit, et. al. There's not much guitar playing on the lower strings, the piano isn't heavy on the left hand, and the kick drum isn't recorded nearly as fat nor as loud as more modern music is. Plus the arrangements kept things out of the bass' way too. Those guitars chunking only on the back-beat, the finger-pops or the tambourine on 2 and 4, and those voices were most of the mix. They left lots of room for the bass.

That's how people who play a lot of notes (Entwistle, Jack Cassady, Phil Lesh, Jack Bruce, Glenn Cornick, etc.) can play busy. Heck, even Dee Muarry with Elton John had some records where he could really play a lot and others where he had to be more restrained. The reason he could get away with those melodic glisses on "Rocket Man" is that there's not much else going on in those sections. When it goes to the chorus and there's more sound, his part is much simpler. Same wtih McCartney on "Something", Joe Osborne on "Only Livin' Boy In New York", Jack Cassady on "Somebody to Love", etc. Read my tag line...

Busy is not necesarily wrong, but it's gotta be within the context of the song, the arrangement, the rest of the band, and the recording (which BTW, is NOT synonymous with "song"!).

jte

[emor]

1. What does Jammerson (or anyone else) do differently, if anything, that makes "busy" work?

syncopation

[Dr_Funkdamental]

Originally Posted by Terry Funk

I think what separates Jamerson from the rest of the busy pack is that he wasn't busy for busy's sake. His lines never took away from the song, because he played with sensitivity to what the rest of the band was playing, while still grooving and being the centerpiece of the music. He also could be delightfully simple as well (early Supremes stuff, "My Girl", etc.). Sensitivity is the key, IMO.

Exactly. My fav bassist is Andrew Gouche', and if you listen to him you know hes all OVER the the place. Yet and still, it fits sooooo well and grooves so hard, you hardly notice. Thats just his style and it fits him. Everyone cant do that.

[bassonthebrain]

+1 to all the responses. I do want to clarify that I don't consider "busy" as necessarily bad, just why some make it work and others can't. Keep the answers coming, I like these threads that let us discuss our takes on styles and see each other's philosophies behind the music.

[Frank Tuesday]

I think busy playing works when you aren't fighting with the other members of the band. I have songs that I play more and songs in which I play less. It all depends on the guitarist and drummer. I read once that the human mind can only listen to two instruments at the same time. You hear the rest, but you aren't listening. If the guitarist is playing a simple backbeat, there is room to enhance your lines. If he is playing a melody along with the singer, you keep it simple.

[ElMon]

I think a lot of this has to do with what exactly drew you to the bass. Did you hear technically amazing players like Jaco/Vooten/Clark/Jamerson and think 'I want to bring the bass to the forefront of the music and show people I can hang with any melodic instrument', or were you more attracted to making big fat notes that made the groove. Alot of us, myself included, have degrees of both influences, but when a player finally goes about forging their sound, the stronger influence will come through. I aspire to be the one who plays simple groove lines that make the rest of the band sound better. I have no desire to study to be one of those flashy players who wows the crowd with technical prowess, not that I don't love to watch those guys do their thing.

[wade_b]

Interestingly, Lindsey Buckingham has referred to John McVie as a busy player.

Make of that what you will.

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by emor

1. What does Jammerson (or anyone else) do differently, if anything, that makes "busy" work?

syncopation

+1

and space between the notes. He rarely lets a note ring it's full duration; If one were to completely accurately transcribe him, there would be little rests at the ends of the notes - he leaves breathing room when he plays (Something I've copped like crazy - and it works, for me at least).

[Pacman]

I feel it's a balance issue, along with a groove issue. Busy works against a simple drum part, simple works better (for me) against a busy drum part. I tend to think orchestraly when I play, trying to hear the whole picture.

But first and foremost, you have to nail it in time.

[73jbass]

I'd say Jamerson was just busy enough to keep the groove moving,without overplaying.I watched In the Shadows Of Motown for what seems like the millionth time yesterday,and it seems that the arrangements were set up where there really wasn't a lead instrument,as it were.And nobody was playing the same thing,but it all blended so well.So there was lots of room for him to work his magic. Every musician,especially bass players,should get that dvd.Worth every penny!

[gweimer]

Originally Posted by emor

1. What does Jammerson (or anyone else) do differently, if anything, that makes "busy" work?

syncopation

That, and he works with a very identifiable theme. His bass lines have a purpose and direction under the song. If you read SITSOM, his bass lines often defined the song.

Another really good example of over-playing that works is a band from a decade back called The Elvis Brothers.

It's So Hard

[mntngrown]

A guitar player I jam with asked me to learn "Heatwave", and he was referring to the Rhonstadt version. When I went to youtube this is the bass player I wanted to emulate! Playin with all his familiar buddies, doing the musical tastefull but rockin restrained lines of a seasoned vet, IMHO. Those Funk Brothers were/are Somethin!

[mntngrown]

The link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-PNmGMTD-s

[Lichtaffen]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

+1

and space between the notes. He rarely lets a note ring it's full duration; If one were to completely accurately transcribe him, there would be little rests at the ends of the notes - he leaves breathing room when he plays (Something I've copped like crazy - and it works, for me at least).

Do you think that might have something to do with using dead strings and a string mute? His feel and attack does play a huge part in that.

"Heatwave" is a perfect example. The rest of the instruments are playing a simple and unified rhythm, but the bass is just letting loose. It totally works.

[Baryonyx]

Busy playing rocks, I love it. I much prefer to hear the bass really moving rather than just playing the bare minimum.