Do we need Monster players?

eno50 · #1 02-18-2009, 07:00 AM

Have you ever got fustrated and wanted to chop your bass up for firewood? Have you ever seen bassists that seem light years ahead of you,and that they just been playing for three years and you have been at it for twenty?
Are they gifted,or a savant or what?
Yes everybody gets in a rut once in a while,we need these so called super players to keep us going,to keep us working on
playing better and better.
Everyones has walked into a music store and seen a wiz kid ripping the neck up on a bass thats bigger than him.
I have lived in Nashville where bass players I mean good ones are under every rock looking for work,are they over qualified?
Your thoughts please......

Eno

The Wrench · #2 02-18-2009, 07:09 AM

I see guys every now and then that, initially, inspire me to practice more. After a while, though, I realize I will never be as good as they are at what they do, so I sleep better knowing I'm pretty OK at what I do.

Rando McNally · #3 02-18-2009, 07:26 AM

Gotta have vic an co. That's how you push the envelope on what's possible on an instrument. Gotta have some visionaries do that. I don't. I copy. That's why I need monsters out there, so I can stand on their shoulders. But we all benefit. Playing bass is a true community. Once someone develops a new style of playing, others can emulate it, add to it, move it around, etc. But without that first visionary, be it vic, jaco or some kid ins his basement in Nashville.

And yeah, those nashville bassists may have it rough, but try being a Nashville guitard!

eno50 · #4 02-18-2009, 07:51 AM

I'am glad you guys look at it in this way, It does make you want to practice more and after a while you sometimes have to take the blow that you may never reach there level,
but on the other hand if you did... then what?
Ever wonder what inspirers the best ones to keep pushing?

Thump Jr. · #5 02-18-2009, 07:52 AM

Nobody can do everything. That's what keeps "the best" going. There's always more. Art never ends.

Ric5 · #6 02-18-2009, 08:01 AM

I'm a pretty good player and I use several different techniques. I thought I had invented a few techniques. Then I see a bass instruction done years ago with John Entwistle. He had been doing some of the techniques for years that I thought that I invented.

wellshuxley · #7 02-18-2009, 08:24 AM

I had a similar experience last night watching Nashville ace Michael Rhodes at work in the studio. I didn't know whether to lock myself away and practice nonstop or to quit the biz altogether! Tom Bukovak was on guitar and Shannon Forrest on drums, those guys are monster players as well. After the final take of one tune Mr. Rhodes asked the engineer to roll back to the beginning of the first verse to correct an apparent "out-of-pocked experience" (totally stealing that line), but it all sounded killer to me. I felt a bit better after he came into the control room and found out that he's in his mid 50's and has played on over 700 records

Phil Smith · #8 02-18-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eno50

Have you ever got fustrated and wanted to chop your bass up for firewood? Have you ever seen bassists that seem light years ahead of you,and that they just been playing for three years and you have been at it for twenty?
Are they gifted,or a savant or what?
Yes everybody gets in a rut once in a while,we need these so called super players to keep us going,to keep us working on
playing better and better.
Everyones has walked into a music store and seen a wiz kid ripping the neck up on a bass thats bigger than him.
I have lived in Nashville where bass players I mean good ones are under every rock looking for work,are they over qualified?
Your thoughts please......

Eno

You can't really compare yourself to someone else unless you've at least done all of the work they have done. The greatest musicians put a lot of work into to what they do and make it look easy but they've put a lot of time in and many have started when they were kids, have musical families, etc.

You get out of it what you put into it. Put in a lot you get a lot, put in a little...

CraigG · #9 02-18-2009, 08:44 AM

Monster ("flashy") players are a nice diversion and can certainly teach many of us a few things. But I would much rather listen to (and strive to be) a player who can play with passion and sensitivity that is appropriate for the song. There is a lot that can be learned from listening closely to the techniques of players who are just good, solid players. To be honest, when I walk into a music store and see someone ripping up the neck of a bass with every flashy lick known to mankind, I teeter between being impressed and amused because, even though it may show great ability, the apparent "need to be noticed" doesn't impress me.

BTW, I really believe a good, cooperative attitude and solid playing will get you more opportunities to play than just being a wiz kid. Reputation is just as important as, maybe more so than, sheer ability.

BassSurfer · #10 02-18-2009, 08:45 AM

this is a cool thread... i like the idea

sarcastro83 · #11 02-18-2009, 08:49 AM

I don't really try to use anyone elses playing or technical ability as a yardstick to measure against my own. I play for myself... I'm comfortable where I am.

capnsandwich · #12 02-18-2009, 08:55 AM

What gets me is that it's not even the monster players that get the gigs mostly. It's usually the guy that looks good in jeans and has a cool tattoo and messed up hair. The monsters still wait in line for the next available spot.

Also, it's really not necessary to be a monster player, just solid and diverse. That's what most band leaders are looking for IME.

**butchblack** · #13 02-18-2009, 09:03 AM

Of course we need monster players......How else can you play the monster mash?

Kenny Allyn · #14 02-18-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butchblack

Of course we need monster players......How else can you play the monster mash?

Exactly!

I work with a lot of pro players with the speaker cab thing, and to me they really great ones are the ones that don't show flash unless it's called for. Most of the guys that I know are so Aww Shucks about it, and then you find they flew to NYC last weekend to do a session!

... Yeah we need them ... to steal the odd lick from, but GC store commands fail to impress me.

bassbully · #15 02-18-2009, 09:45 AM

I dont really follow bass players or styles for that matter. I do follow how a bassist sounds in a band or how he ads to the music. I dont care about bass solo's or albums etc but do give props and understand monster players.
I play for me and what i can do, this makes me happy. I will admit there are time i get frustrated at why things dont come to me as easy as they do others.

A few years back i got into a one sided debate with a dim witted guitarist i knew. He had a signature guitar from some hot metal shredder guy. While i was looking at the guitar i said i didnt know the guy well but i knew he was a shredder and was good.The guitar guy i knew said "yea he's good but I am better"

I said ...what? He was dead serious! I told him with all due respect he was a decent player but would never be in the ring with a player like that guy. I told him we all have our limitations and can strive to be more than we are but sometimes have to except the fact that "it is what it is." He said i was crazy and with my attitude i might as well quit playing and i was a bad role model for my children

He said by giving up and never feeling you can be better than the best you would be selling yourself short and anyone else you care about. He said if i tired hard enough i could be better than Jaco!

Well i remembered why i stayed away from this oddball said goodbye and have not heard from him since...thank God!

Its ok to set your sights high just know when its time to level them.

kesslari · #16 02-18-2009, 10:09 AM

Great thread. I was thinking along a similar line last week, after watching a Richard Bona clip. And part of me thought "sheesh, why even play?"
Which is a really stupid thing to think, really.
And when I thought about it, I thought that I play music to both express music and to share it with others. Richard Bona can't do every gig on the planet - he's just one guy. And even if he (or other "monsters") could - they can just express what is in them. So there is a need for the rest of us to play and share music.

Quote:

it's really not necessary to be a monster player, just solid and diverse.

That's enormously true. And when I need to, I think about the good players who have asked me to play on their projects, and I see the truth in your statement.
You don't have to be a monster. You just have to be good and solid at what you do.

Quote:

I don't really try to use anyone elses playing or technical ability as a yardstick to measure against my own. I play for myself... I'm comfortable where I am.

If you really feel that way after watching/hearing a virtuosic performance on your instrument, then you, sir, are a truly well adjusted individual and I salute you.
That's how it should be. But honestly, I personally have to work to get there, sometimes.

b_carville · #17 02-18-2009, 10:24 AM

I see better players than me ALL the time!

Granted,I am a bit insecure about my playing.

But,I do get hired a lot and some really good players like using me.I try my best to keep it simple and in the pocket. No matter what else is happening I keep the foundation.

Every now & then some smartass will ask me why I don't "cutloose" or slap or play like Clarke,Jaco,Squire,Wooten,Geddy Lee,etc.

The only thing I can say is "That's not me!".

baalroo · #18 02-18-2009, 11:38 AM

I see a monster player and I think "eh, If I spent all my time doing THAT I'm sure I could be that 'good'," but I don't understand why anyone would want to reach that level of proficiency on a single instrument. I play what I hear in my head and if I ever heard "woodily - bumpity - thumpa thumpa thumpa - mwaaah - mwaaah - mwaaah - boopity - boopity - kathumpa - doop doop dooop doop - mwaaaaaaahhhh - didly didly didly didly didly didly didly didly dudly dudly doodly doodly doodly - mwaaaah - thumpa thumpa - mwaaaaaaaaahh - diddly - thumpa - mwaaaah" in my head I would just figure out how to play THAT.

It ssem to me though that in most cases they just want to show off their acrobatics and how it sounds is secondary. I consider guys like Wooten to be more like Jugglers or plate spinners than musicians, they just happen to be using a musical instrument to show off their particular skill.

sarcastro83 · #19 02-18-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kesslari

If you really feel that way after watching/hearing a virtuosic performance on your instrument, then you, sir, are a truly well adjusted individual and I salute you.
That's how it should be. But honestly, I personally have to work to get there, sometimes.

I absolutely think it's good to feel the need to "get there". It's what makes a player better. It's like a drive to succeed.

I'm just a mediocre player. I can hang with a band and that's all I've ever really wanted for myself. For me, the whole idea of playing music is to belong and contribute to something that is bigger than yourself... Kind of like the Marines, but with guitars, I guess. I feel that I accomplish that in my own way...

Still... I guess I should practice more.

Dertygen · #20 02-18-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassbully

{...snip...} I told him we all have our limitations and can strive to be more than we are but sometimes have to except the fact that "it is what it is." {...snip...} He said by giving up and never feeling you can be better than the best you would be selling yourself short and anyone else you care about. He said if i tired hard enough i could be better than Jaco! {...snip...} Its ok to set your sights high just know when its time to level them.

I slightly agree with the guitarist... never be complacent.