Flea... with METALLICA?!?!

[Zappstorius]

Originally Posted by MikeVQ

Could someone explain to me why on certain Metallica albums the bass is barely audible at all, except for solo verses? Is there a reason for it from a recording standpoint? I'm curious. My old guitar instructor said it "brings up the guitars more" but never went into more detail about that.

Yeah, because on some albums, specifically "...And Justice for All" they (James & Lars) were trying to get a big guitar sound and a big drum sound. The bass was completely lost in the mix. It wasn't until Bob Rock became their producer on "The Black Album" that things changed in the bass dept.

It's a shame but it happens more than you think in metal music.

[Qvist]

I don't understand it either, why the bass often is inaudible in rock music - why have a bass player if you can't even hear them? Who would want to accept that as a bassist, I just dont get it.

[Mayers]

Originally Posted by Snakeman1066

Not gone just evolved....if we don't continue to grow as musicians we die as artists....his playing has changed on purpose....

Flea's bass playing has changed considerably throughout the years. When he joined Fear his technique centered largely around traditional punk rock bass lines, however he was to change this style when the Red Hot Chili Peppers formed. He began to incorporate a "slap" bass style that drew influence largely from Bootsy Collins. However, this technique caused Flea to receive attention from the music world and was often copied, and he therefore felt it necessary to completely remove slap-bass styles from his repertoire following Mother's Milk. Consequently, Blood Sugar Sex Magik saw a notable shift in style as it featured none of his signature technique but rather styles that focused more on traditional and melodic roots. His intellectual beliefs on how to play the instrument was also altered: "I was trying to play simply on Blood Sugar Sex Magik because I had been playing too much prior to that, so I thought, 'I've really got to chill out and play half as many notes'. When you play less, it's more exciting—there's more room for everything. If I do play something busy, it stands out, instead of the bass being a constant onslaught of notes. Space is good." During the writing and recording of One Hot Minute, Flea integrated some use of slap-bass progressions, but continued to center his technique around the philosophy of "less is more" rather than complexity: "I can't even think of anything I played that was complex [on the record]; even the slapping stuff is simple. It's original-sounding, and I'm proud of that—but what I played was more a matter of aesthetic choice." This led Flea to alter the way he wrote music by playing alone, instead of the jam sessions that would dictate how the band conceived songs: "[One Hot Minute] is the least jam-oriented record we've made. I mean, we definitely jammed on the ideas, but there's only one groove on the whole album that came from a jam, 'Deep Kick'. The rest of it came from my sitting down with a guitar or bass."

Flea became interested in electronica during the Californication era and he attempted to emulate the same atmosphere given off by synthsesizers into his bass playing: "I feel the most exciting music happening is electronica, without a doubt." He ultimately decided against this, acknowledging that, aside from Frusciante, the band was not moving in the same direction. Californication also saw him incorporate more funk-driven bass lines than he had on One Hot Minute. In By the Way, much of the bass-lines were entirely stripped of funk. Flea felt the chords Frusciante had written were not supportive of his typical technique; furthermore, he does not feel the musical direction of the record was specifically melodic, but instead "a result of each one of us being who we are. The way we [the band] compose music is a very communal thing."

Flea's stepfather was in a bebop band that frequently jammed in his presence; he, therefore, became fascinated with the trumpet soon after. Flea credits his continued interest in music to jazz performers like Miles Davis, Louis Armstrong, John Coltrane and Dizzy Gillespie. After Kiedis introduced him to punk and rock, Flea became infatuated with artists like The Germs, Styx, David Bowie and Defunkt. Flea's early influences before Blood Sugar Sex Magik were mainly funk artists like Bootsy Collins, Parliament, Funkadelic, Sly & the Family Stone, and The Meters. They would become a notable aspect of the Red Hot Chili Peppers' sound up to Mother's Milk. Originally, Flea was given the impression by punk bands that one should play as hard and fast as they possibly could, but ultimately rejected this philosophy during Blood Sugar Sex Magik: "I was so into being raw it was all ********." On Californication and By the Way, Flea drew influence from electronica, gothic rock bands like The Cure and Siouxsie & the Banshees and New Wave music rather than funk. During Stadium Arcadium he experienced another shift in interest. Instead of the melodic music he had listened to during the two previous albums, he enjoyed the work of "flashy" guitar players like Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, and Jimmy Page, exclusively.

Yeah he evolves like anybody but he falls in the problem has many other bass player that "mature". they play less and less to point it doesn't sound like him anymore. What I liked about old RHCP album is that if you remove the bass part , you loose half the melody. Now you remove the bass , you just loose bottom end. They now sound like any pop band.

[MikeVQ]

Originally Posted by Qvist

I don't understand it either, why the bass often is inaudible in rock music - why have a bass player if you can't even hear them? Who would want to accept that as a bassist, I just dont get it.

Even on some of the tunes off Master of Puppets and Ride The Lightning I can't hear the bass. Kill Em All the bass is subtle but I can still hear it, it's actually quite percussive on that record.

[metallicafan18]

Originally Posted by MikeVQ

Even on some of the tunes off Master of Puppets and Ride The Lightning I can't hear the bass. Kill Em All the bass is subtle but I can still hear it, it's actually quite percussive on that record.

I see where your getting here. I can hear the pretty much every bass line on Metallica's first three, but Ride the Lightning is the album that I hear it the least. I hear it perfectly on Puppets. I totally agree with you on Kill 'em All too. The only song on Ride the Lighting that has a bass line that really stands out is "Fade to Black". I love that bass line so much. It's simple, yet has so much soul and heart in it. This is why I think Cliff Burton is one of the best bassists out there.

[Curtybob]

Originally Posted by MikeVQ

Could someone explain to me why on certain Metallica albums the bass is barely audible at all, except for solo verses? Is there a reason for it from a recording standpoint? I'm curious. My old guitar instructor said it "brings up the guitars more" but never went into more detail about that.

If you listen to the tone of the rhythm guitar tracks, they are very bassy. The meat of the Metallica guitar tone resides in part of the bass guitar's jurisdiction. If you get the bass to what we think is the bass' fair share in the mix, and keep the guitars at their level, you'd have to bring the overall mix down a few notches to keep from overloading.

Basically, in the Metallica mix (not counting vocals), guitar and bass drum is top priority. Everything else in expendable.

[anonymous1225111]

Now if they would get rid of Robert... Grow their hair long and have flea play for them all the time... Maybe they would sound halfway decent again!

[MikeVQ]

Originally Posted by metallicafan18

I see where your getting here. I can hear the pretty much every bass line on Metallica's first three, but Ride the Lightning is the album that I hear it the least. I hear it perfectly on Puppets. I totally agree with you on Kill 'em All too. The only song on Ride the Lighting that has a bass line that really stands out is "Fade to Black". I love that bass line so much. It's simple, yet has so much soul and heart in it. This is why I think Cliff Burton is one of the best bassists out there.

Some songs i can hear the bass and then I just sort of lose it along the way. My ears suck though. When I listen to a song I can only hear one thing at a time, if that makes any sense. For a split second the bass will stand out, then the drums, then the vocals etc. etc. I know a lot of people who can hear the entire song at one time but my ears have never been like that, it's almost as if they're selective.

[metallicafan18]

Originally Posted by MikeVQ

Some songs i can hear the bass and then I just sort of lose it along the way. My ears suck though. When I listen to a song I can only hear one thing at a time, if that makes any sense. For a split second the bass will stand out, then the drums, then the vocals etc. etc. I know a lot of people who can hear the entire song at one time but my ears have never been like that, it's almost as if they're selective.

There's a few Metallica songs where I can't hear a certain part of the bass. It may only be one verse or a bridge, it's weird.

[MikeVQ]

Originally Posted by metallicafan18

There's a few Metallica songs where I can't hear a certain part of the bass. It may only be one verse or a bridge, it's weird.

Yeah, I'm the same. Like on Sad But True there are a couple parts during the main riff where i can hear a low end rumble.

[rumbler]

Originally Posted by CaseyTinsley

Now if they would get rid of Robert... Grow their hair long and have flea play for them all the time... Maybe they would sound halfway decent again!

woooeee

easy there man! Trujillo knows how to make metal music groove!

I am not really a flea fan, his style just doesn't appeal to me, but it ain't like I hate him.

Although even if I liked Flea better than Trujillo I would still say Trujillo suits metal music muchhh more. And btw before people go comparing Trujillo's chops(especially slap) to Flea maybe you guys should check out some infectious grooves!

[Hughsie]

I'm not the biggest fan, but Trujillo is a monster player. Didn't he also play for the last lineup of Suicidal Tendencies? They re-recorded a lot of their old tunes in the mid/late 90s, and the bass was insane.

[diechris]

heres a vid from practice... weird part is seeing Rob play a warwick??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbRlS...eature=related

[soong]

what an awesome sight...flea with Trujillo...awesome

[MikeVQ]

I just checked out the youtube clip from the actual show. Awesome.

[guitarrock24]

didn't rob also play in ozzy's band and in black label society

[MikeVQ]

Originally Posted by guitarrock24

didn't rob also play in ozzy's band and in black label society

I know he played for Ozzy. Not sure about BLS though.

[rumbler]

Originally Posted by guitarrock24

didn't rob also play in ozzy's band and in black label society

yes he did BOTH

[Flintlock]

Originally Posted by diechris

heres a vid from practice... weird part is seeing Rob play a warwick??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbRlS...eature=related

Looks like his new Yamahas to me.

[EDIT] WOOPS! Sorry I hadn't watch the whole of the video. That does look like a Warwick headstock...

[jerry]

Originally Posted by derelicte

+1 man, these guys have MADE it there's no reason to hate.

but anyways... watching morning news and who do i see performing live in NYC?? YES, you guessed it.

N K O T B!!!!

not that i'm a fan, but DAMN, reunion confirmed!

David Dyson played for the original NKOTB, and David can throw down, great bassist!!!!