Great Young Players Get Noticed Fast!

[Dr. Cheese]

I remember a few weeks ago when there was another pissing contest over Tal Wilkenfield, a great TB member from Chicago noted that it was not unusual for an exceptional player to get major gigs when quite young. The more I thought about it, it is the rule, not the exception. Major artists tend to look for great young talent, and established talent often becomes to expensive for long tours or becomes leaders themselves.

Any way, this old interview of Stuart Zender reminded me of just how much a gifted player can achieve in a few short years:http://www.angelfire.com/ab/stuartze...nterviews.html

[KennethB]

Yeah, I remember when Stuart Zender first hit. He made quite the splash and me and my musician friends were really impressed over that he was so good at such a young age. (Although we were even younger.)

I'd say those three records he made with Jamiroquai will always be regarded as "bass-classics".

In fact I remember when "Bassist" (UK bass mag) had their "100 best bass albums of all time"-poll in 97, those three records were all in the top 15. (two of them were top 10).

That's quite something when you're born in 74, and the last record (Travelling Without Moving) was released in 96.

[Dr. Cheese]

I could see how a younger person could vote the first three Jamiroquai CDs as classics. I love them myself but, I remember Bernard Edwards, Larry Graham, and Mark Adams, so Zender isn't exactly bringing anything new to the table for me.

[willgroove2]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I could see how a younger person could vote the first three Jamiroquai CDs as classics. I love them myself but, I remember Bernard Edwards, Larry Graham, and Mark Adams, so Zender isn't exactly bringing anything new to the table for me.

+1,it is interesting when people freak out over a younger player when they are not aware of the history of the bass guitar

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by willgroove2

+1,it is interesting when people freak out over a younger player when they are not aware of the history of the bass guitar

Brother, I believe you were the guy who made the original pioint that it is not unusual for a great young players to get major gigs quickly. In fact, you mentioned some pretty smokin' gigs you played yourself.

[KennethB]

My post was more of a comment on how huge Jamiroquai was at that time, especially in Europe.
I was in London on vacation in October '96 and the dominating images when it came to advertisement on billboards, busses etc. all over the city were Coca Cola, McDonald's and Jamiroquai. I remember being really struck by the sheer scale of it.
Travelling Without Moving has sold 11.5 million copies.

People knew about Graham and Edwards. Adams, not so much.

The only single bass player that had better score overall than Zender in that poll was Jaco. Interesting stuff.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by KennethB

The only single bass player that had better score overall than Zender in that poll was Jaco. Interesting stuff.

I could see it. I don't think Jaco was any more talented than Zender, he just was a jazz musician, and Zender was a pop/funk musician.

[jerry]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

I could see it. I don't think Jaco was any more talented than Zender, he just was a jazz musician, and Zender was a pop/funk musician.

I love Zender's playing, but I can't agree on the the talent level being the same.

[JimK]

I agree, Jerry. When you're driving a band led by guys like Shorter & Zawinul...need I say more?

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

The more I thought about it, it is the rule, not the exception. Major artists tend to look for great young talent...

I agree on this - so this was Miles' great skill - to pick up the best young talent and use their energy and enthusiasm!

I can't believe JimK hasn't mentioned Tony Williams at 17 wasn't it...?

Also Miles "discovered" John McLaughlin,Wayne Shorter,Herbie Hancock etc. etc.

[JimK]

I know, Bruce...Tony's playing level at a mere 17 is beyond words. I would say he took Miles' music up a notch ot two.
IIRC, Williams' "debut" was on Vertigo by Jackie Mclean.

Chick Corea, another Miles' alum, also liked working with young guys in his bands.
The trick is to find young guys with talent & enthusiasm...and they work for less vs. a more mature person with bills.

[Lichtaffen]

I think it has more to do with the Western view of youth and prodigies. We seem to have this lust for young geniuses who blow us away with their talent, but we overlook the seasoned veterans whose talent has stood the test of time. Michael Jackson is a perfect example. What happened to him after he turned 30? Nothing but tabloid BS. I think it all has to do with image and marketing. Ugly old people generally (I said 'generally') don't sell albums. I don't want to get into a big thing about it, but aren't we supposed to listen to music with our ears, not our eyes? And this coming from a photographer.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

I think it has more to do with the Western view of youth and prodigies. We seem to have this lust for young geniuses who blow us away with their talent, but we overlook the seasoned veterans whose talent has stood the test of time. Michael Jackson is a perfect example. What happened to him after he turned 30? Nothing but tabloid BS. I think it all has to do with image and marketing. Ugly old people generally (I said 'generally') don't sell albums. I don't want to get into a big thing about it, but aren't we supposed to listen to music with our ears, not our eyes? And this coming from a photographer.

That is something to think about.

[Lichtaffen]

I'm not sure which blues singer said this, but it was something to the effect of "nobody under the age of 30 should be singing the blues because they don't know what life is about yet."

I'm just fast becoming a grumpy old man.

[jerry]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

I'm just fast becoming a grumpy old man.

I'm already there.

[J. Crawford]

Stefan Lessard started in DMB when he was 16.

Im 16 and got asked to play bass for Alison Tuesday, who was signed by Faith Hills producer before she passed away.

I am physical evidence this thread is true. I mean, Im not Stefan or Stu, btu still.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

I think it has more to do with the Western view of youth and prodigies. We seem to have this lust for young geniuses who blow us away with their talent, but we overlook the seasoned veterans whose talent has stood the test of time. Michael Jackson is a perfect example. What happened to him after he turned 30? Nothing but tabloid BS. I think it all has to do with image and marketing. Ugly old people generally (I said 'generally') don't sell albums. I don't want to get into a big thing about it, but aren't we supposed to listen to music with our ears, not our eyes? And this coming from a photographer.

Doesn't happen in Jazz - experienced guys who have played with the best, are the biggest draws.

On his European tour Wayne Shorter was playing to packed houses in big venues - he's in his 70s.

Same for Herbie Hancock,Dave Holland and many others.

There is a big gig in September that is getting loads of pubilicity here in London, for Jimmy Cobb's Kind of Blue revival - where all the artists must be in their 70s...?

[Jaydin Nathan]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Doesn't happen in Jazz - experienced guys who have played with the best, are the biggest draws.

On his European tour Wayne Shorter was playing to packed houses in big venues - he's in his 70s.

Same for Herbie Hancock,Dave Holland and many others.

There is a big gig in September that is getting loads of pubilicity here in London, for Jimmy Cobb's Kind of Blue revival - where all the artists must be in their 70s...?

Indeed, it doesn't happen in Jazz, and that's why I love it.

A good movie to see about this topic is Before The Music Dies, look it up on Google, it has a few artists talking about the music business (including Dave Matthews, I saw Jordasch post about Stefan Lessard). Quite an interesting movie.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

...but we overlook the seasoned veterans whose talent has stood the test of time. Michael Jackson is a perfect example. What happened to him after he turned 30?

I grew up with the J-5 & still check them out when I'm in an old Skool R&B/Motown vibe...that said, IMO, MJ was done after Thriller. I bought Bad & blechh. I did notice Rod Temperton's tunes were no longer showing up on MJ's albums. More below-

I think it all has to do with image and marketing. Ugly old people generally (I said 'generally') don't sell albums. I don't want to get into a big thing about it, but aren't we supposed to listen to music with our ears, not our eyes? And this coming from a photographer.

Absolutely correct... MTV & 'the video' made things worse in this regard (no doubt, it was always part of the equation before...especially in POP music). Back in MTV's early hey-day...I do recall hearing how band so & so would not have made it if MTV was around in the '60s/'70s (manily 'cause the band members were not so "photogenic").
Living Colour used to sound off against MTV's "fashion bands", too...IIRC.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Jordasch

Im 16 and got asked to play bass for Alison Tuesday, who was signed by Faith Hills producer before she passed away.

I am physical evidence this thread is true. I mean, Im not Stefan or Stu, btu still.

One of my bands is a New Country parody band. We open for a lot of the 'name' bands. Many times, the road band is full of younger guys (not so much for the really big/established 'stars'...seasoned vets + an appetite for gunslinger bassists like Keith Horne & Anthony Joyner).
My girlfriend used to always ask me why I wasn't doing that...fact is, after my mid-20s, my price would be too high. My late teens/early 20s...I woulda played for free!
So, it's business. Why pay someone x-amount of cash when you can find someone else that can play the same parts for a lot less.