The "How Can I Sound Like (insert name of favorite bassist)?" thread:

[MysticMichael]

Folks, I don't want to come across as a cantankerous old misfit who's constantly yelling at kids to get off his lawn. But...

Seeing all the "how can I sound like" threads around here has become really tedious. While as a very young player I suppose it's normal to experiment with replicating the sounds and styles of one's musical idols (I confess when I started out playing 30+ years ago, I bought a Rickenbacker in order to sound like my idol Chris Squire), let us all - from noobie kid to grizzled veteran - realize and always remember that one of the chief challenges and joys of being a musician is - to discover and to develop one's own distinct personal style and sound - NOT to try to sound like Cliff Burton. Or Flea. Or Victor Wooten. Or Geddy Lee. Or even Chris Squire ().

IMO, learning how to replicate the style and/or sound of your idol is fine - if you use it to deepen your knowledge of the instrument, discover what you like and don't like, and ultimately, to create your own unique voice on the instrument - thus becoming a much more sophisticated, well-rounded musician. If it remains at the level of wannabe hero worship, it's just posing - nothing more.



MM

[whatshizname]

You mean you're not going to show me how to sound like Cliff Burton, Flea, Wooten, Geddy Lee, or Chris Squire? Aw man...

:P

[TheMutt]

While I won't go so far as to say it's posing, I can see your point.

However, it can also be said that there are probably people who genuinely need to know how to sound close to the artist who originally played a song that their band is covering. There are of course some obvious things that probably don't need to be asked, (ie: "I own a fretless bass strung with tapewounds and low action. How can I sound like Flea?" ) but I wouldn't so quickly relegate everyone to poser status.

That being said, I'm definitely guilty of this in the past as well (sans questions on here). Thankfully, the two bands that I currently play in prefer that I use my own sound, or a modified variation of the sound of the original (If they use overdrive, so do I. If they use chorus, so do I. If the highs are cut, I'll cut my highs. Etc.)

[62bass]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Folks, I don't want to come across as a cantankerous old misfit who's constantly yelling at kids to get off his lawn. But...

Seeing all the "how can I sound like" threads around here has become really tedious. While as a very young player I suppose it's normal to experiment with replicating the sounds and styles of one's musical idols (I confess when I started out playing 30+ years ago, I bought a Rickenbacker in order to sound like my idol Chris Squire), let us all - from noobie kid to grizzled veteran - realize and always remember that one of the chief challenges and joys of being a musician is - to discover and to develop one's own distinct personal style and sound - NOT to try to sound like Cliff Burton. Or Flea. Or Victor Wooten. Or Geddy Lee. Or even Chris Squire ().

IMO, learning how to replicate the style and/or sound of your idol is fine - if you use it to deepen your knowledge of the instrument, discover what you like and don't like, and ultimately, to create your own unique voice on the instrument - thus becoming a much more sophisticated, well-rounded musician. If it remains at the level of wannabe hero worship, it's just posing - nothing more.



MM

I agree with you completely but I'm afraid you're wasting your breath. The young guys except for a very few unusual guys aren't interested in becoming musicians. Hopefully a few of them will get around to it later. They're still at the level of being fans.

So for now it's gear, the sound of their idols, and gossip that's interesting to them.

I've been playing professionally since I was in my early 20s. The bulk of my income has always been from music. So the gear and so and so's sound weren't very important. What was important was that I played well and showed up with reliable equipment. If I didn't I didn't eat. And I had to keep improving to keep up with the competition. But even back when I started in the very early days of electric bass most of the guys taking up the instrument were fans and not at all into being musicians. Naturally, hardly any of them continued on and are still playing. A few got back into it in middle age as a hobby and a chance to get out and have some fun with like minded friends.

There's nothing wrong with that at all in my opinion as long as they don't try to pass themselves off as professionals. I have a friend, a folk singer and guitarist who used to play for money for a couple years back in the 80s. His day job is computer repair now. He thinks he's a professional musician, yet it takes him a week to learn to play and sing a simple folk song. He has a wonderful guitar yet it takes him half an hour to tune it. He thinks everyone who plays better than him is a fantastic musician. That's a lot of people. He goes out one night every two weeks to a folk club and plays a couple songs. He drives me nuts when he talks to me about music because he doesn't know anything about it yet he has very strong opinions. But he's a good guy and a good friend otherwise so I can't complain. And it's handy to have a friend that can keep your computer running.

There, I've just wasted my breath too. But it's nice to get it off my chest if even only to myself.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by TheMutt

However, it can also be said that there are probably people who genuinely need to know how to sound close to the artist who originally played a song that their band is covering. There are of course some obvious things that probably don't need to be asked, (ie: "I own a fretless bass strung with tapewounds and low action. How can I sound like Flea?" ) but I wouldn't so quickly relegate everyone to poser status.

Of course, you make a valid point. I would not wish to so characterize every player who "poses" such a question. Which is why I tried to qualify my remarks with the phrase: "wannabe hero worship"...

Trying to replicate a particular sound/style for a specific, limited performance objective is a perfectly legitimate professional endeavor. IMHO, it doesn't rank as highly on the scale of artistic ambition as does the process of creating one's own voice. But I suppose that would be a target... uh, I mean topic for another thread...

MM

[dougjwray]

Copying one's heroes is a universal way of starting out. Why do art students sketch famous works in museums? Hopefully, one goes on to combine bits of influences into something different.
Also, when you're learning how to make different sounds, as a part of learning "the ropes" -- but don't know a Rickenbacker from a Hofner -- you refer to famous people. For example, I might have no interest in ever sounding like Chris Squire, but I might be curious about how he got his sound on "Fragile."

[wizay]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

Copying one's heroes is a universal way of starting out. Why do art students sketch famous works in museums? Hopefully, one goes on to combine bits of influences into something different.

Very true

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

Copying one's heroes is a universal way of starting out. Why do art students sketch famous works in museums? Hopefully, one goes on to combine bits of influences into something different.

+1 And if you view musical expression as a language, then you have to concur that speaking any language is an act of copying others to some extent for the rest of your life. Even at the point where you no longer consciously try to copy someone else, you are still being influenced by hearing others speak to you, and that changes they way you speak to them. Few people are inventing new words these days, so you copy. You can't escapte it even if you try. Music is no different I think. Even at an advanced level, there is always going to be someone else out there who is doing something cool and different. If you like what they are doing, IMHO you are robbing yourself of a very valid learning opportunity to not attempt to emulate what they are doing in your practice. Transcribing another musician to me is one of the greatest honors out there. And trying to emulate their tone has it's own benefits that you can apply later when needed.

Of course, wanting to actually be someone is different, but that's just part of learning and maturing as a person and player.

[MikeBass]

Somebody better not let Peter Muller see this thread!!!!
(look him up- youtube or something, you'll see what I'm talking about!)

[KJung]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

Copying one's heroes is a universal way of starting out. Why do art students sketch famous works in museums? Hopefully, one goes on to combine bits of influences into something different.
Also, when you're learning how to make different sounds, as a part of learning "the ropes" -- but don't know a Rickenbacker from a Hofner -- you refer to famous people. For example, I might have no interest in ever sounding like Chris Squire, but I might be curious about how he got his sound on "Fragile."

+1 all the way!

[NKBassman]

[ramble on]

I've been guilty of "tone worship" from time to time, but for me, researching someone's tone has always been more of a starting point, rather than an end point. It's a way for me to start with/discover something I know/think is good, and then adjust from there to suit my own needs.

Example #1, Billy Sheehan: I bought my Yamaha Attitude bass not because I particularly loved or wanted Billy Sheehan's tone (I actually find it a little hollow and lifeless at times, and don't idolize his overly flashy playing nearly as much as I used to), but I bought it because I felt it was a sick bass. The stereo outputs open all kinds of doors for recording and live playing, and the pickups in it are ridiculous. Sure, I was originally attracted to it because it was "Billy's bass", but didn't actually want to buy one until I had tried it extensively in the store through a rig very similar to my own, and thought "yeah, this could work".

Example #2, Geddy Lee: I've never wanted to sound like Geddy Lee because he is Geddy Lee, but I have researched his tone extensively because I think it sounds great, and more importantly I feel that in general it adapts itself well to the style of music I play. I've gone so far as to GAS hard for a Geddy Lee sig bass, but only because I've played them, and seen other people play them, and I think they are fantastic instraments with amazing tonal characteristics. Would I be as interested in one if it didn't have his name on it... maybe not at first, but maybe it just would have taken me a little longer to find out about that particular bass, and then I would still want one just as bad as I do now. If the next band I start wouldn't benefit from that snappy Geddy tone, I wouldn't go in that direction, but it's always nice to know how to be able to get a certain sound.


Combining Examples 1 and 2, I now use my Attitude bass as my main bass, and play through a Sansamp RBI usually plugged straight into the board as the DI, and through my Carvin DCM1000 and Mesa cab on stage. The beef of the Attitude plays well with the grind of the Sansamp, and by pulling hard I can get a real Geddy-ish tone, but obviously slightly different. I don't think anybody would tell you I sound like Geddy Lee or Billy Sheehan, but if you listen closely I'm sure you could hear the influence of both of them in my playing. AND, for the record, I actually bought the Sansamp before I even knew Geddy was using them, simply because I had recorded with someone elses that was at the studio, and thought it sounded amazing.

Phew, that took way longer than I expected. Back to work...

[ramble off]

[jojobean39]

I agree with some aspects of what you say, but disagree with others. While I do find it funny that "kids" want to sound like certain players, it's not really a bad thing. I mean, they want to play music and sound like their idol. After a little time playing around and experimenting, they will realize that the sound comes from the fingers.

But sometimes it is a legit question. I mean, there are times when I want a certain sound for my bass and the best way to describe it is by saying "how can I get ________ sound?" Obviously, as I said, a lot comes from the fingers of the person playing. But certain settings can be replicated and certain equipment can be utilized. If I want to sound like Johnny Myung of Dream Theater (I don't), going out and buying a P-Bass probably isn't the right move.

[T-MOST]

Simply put, You can't.

[kesslari]

"A genius is the one most like himself". Thelonious Monk

I love that quote.

[OneMoreRobot]

I think most people, at least these are my intentions when I ask such a question, are looking for the right direction to go to find the tone they're looking for.

For example I don't want to sound just like Tim Bob, because his tone's deeper than what I want. But I am interested in how he gets grindiness, so looking into how he gets his tone is going to help me define my own tone.

[FenderAmpeg]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Seeing all the "how can I sound like" threads around here has become really tedious.

Is it just seeing them in the forum list that has become so, or are you actually reading them?

I might suggest (as I do with some forums or TB'ers) just go right past, nothing of interest to see there.

If you are in fact reading them, well..... that's on the reader.

Yes I've gotten a few posts into a forum and thought "damn, got me again" so I just close it and go on.

I actually do like some of the "how did "X" get that sound on "X" answers. Of course when I try, not even close, but hey that's part of the fun form me.

Oh, and yeah, hate them kids on the lawn!!!

[dougjwray]

Originally Posted by kesslari

"A genius is the one most like himself". Thelonious Monk

I love that quote.

Wonderful quote. Monk was fantastic.
There was an interview with George Harrison which I wish I still had. I have to paraphrase. The interviewer asked him something like, "Where do you think the next Beatles will come from?" and he answered something like, "Someone will try to imitate us and fail [just as we did when when imitated our heroes] and they'll create something new."

[MysticMichael]

What? Is this thread still going?

Originally Posted by kesslari

"A genius is the one most like himself". Thelonious Monk

I love that quote.

Now there ya go...

Originally Posted by FenderAmpeg

Oh, and yeah, hate them kids on the lawn!!!

%#@&#@ kids!

MM

[Trapezius]

Trying to emulate the sound of our heroes is a great way to learn, IMO. I remember I was hooked on one particular keyboard sound, the old lead sound used by Jordan Rudess. It sounds really unique, and I spent a few years experimenting with it, until I figured it out. Later, Jordan explained how he made it from scratch, and it was pretty close to what I did. A ridiculous combination of guitar, flute, english horn and different waveforms... how the **** did he think of something like that?
I use that sound for some solos in my cover band, but not much else. I don't think it's fair to use it and call it my sound.
But, now I'm working on something else, based on what I learned from that process. I just use different waveforms and samples, that's all. It still reminds me of that sound, but now it's mine, I added a bit of my own ideas in it.

The same with the old Geddy sound, I tried to emulate it, and when I was close enough, I changed it and turned it into my own thing. A slightly more modern sounding version of it with more low end. That comes in handy for the really rockin parts, or whenever I would play a Rush song.

It's impossible to not be influenced by others... don't worry about copying, everyone does. Just admit your influences.

[Pilgrim]

I tend to the opinion that unless you're doing a tribute, you should spend time sounding like the best YOU that you can be. The sound will be yours.

But there's a fine line between learning a technique that someone else uses - which can be a good learning challenge and experience - and just trying to be a carbon copy. I see considerable merit in the first motivation, little merit in the second.