How is Cliff Burton overrated?

[Tupac]

I don't really understand why people say this. He was a monster, he'd practice 6 hours a day, and some of his basslines are the most fun to play. Not to mention bassists were given almost no attention back then (besides good ol' Geddy), yet he had to balls to take center stage. How is he overrated?

[hachi kid]

cause he's sloppy. personally, I respect the guy. he has great feel, and when he cut loose, he was pretty melodic. but he definitely didn't sound like he practiced 6 hours a day...

[jacojbass]

sloppy comes to mind....ymmv

[madbassplaya]

Originally Posted by Tupac

I don't really understand why people say this. He was a monster, he'd practice 6 hours a day, and some of his basslines are the most fun to play. Not to mention bassists were given almost no attention back then (besides good ol' Geddy), yet he had to balls to take center stage. How is he overrated?

Overrated is a word that gets tossed around a lot here it seems. Cliff was a great musician and I think he brought a lot to the table for Metallica. However, he's not my favorite bassist. I still respect him though.

[Rockmusician]

Originally Posted by hachi kid

cause he's sloppy. personally, I respect the guy. he has great feel, and when he cut loose, he was pretty melodic. but he definitely didn't sound like he practiced 6 hours a day...

+1

[sephiroth.rahl]

Dude, I totally agree with you! sorry I have nothing to add though...

[jordak]

who calls him overrated? I think that bassists and non-musicians alike recognize him to be a great talent with a lasting influence on thrash metal and rock music in general.

[JonahTheAmazing]

I think he is recognized. I wouldn't say over rated. I believe some people dislike the respect he gets because they think he only got that respect because he has passed on. To think he wouldn't be respected if he was still around is ludicrous.

[Travis_Bass]

I think it is just a backlash to the people who say he is the best bass player, ever. It is ridiculous. Everyone has their inspirations, but to say the bassist you like is the best, is absurd. Cliff was great at what he did, but he was a little sloppy. Thats just my opinion.

[Tupac]

Originally Posted by JonahTheAmazing

I think he is recognized. I wouldn't say over rated. I believe some people dislike the respect he gets because they think he only got that respect because he has passed on. To think he wouldn't be respected if he was still around is ludicrous.

The thing about that, is that Cliff is in the top 5 of many people's opinion on the best bassist, and he was just 24. Imagine what he could do if he was in his 40s or 30s like most world class bassists.

[Thunder Pulse]

Originally Posted by Tupac

Not to mention bassists were given almost no attention back then (besides good ol' Geddy

Reading your post, and the part above in particular, I automatically assume you're a teenager. It's just flat out ignorant to think that Geddy was the only other bass player who got noticed back in the mid 80s and earlier. There were plenty of metal & rock bassists who were (and still are) well known. Just to name two, Steve Harris & Bill Sheehan. Harris is 1000x more important to Maiden than Burton was to Metallica, and Sheehan... well, Sheehan is Sheehan.

IMO, his death elevated his status to almost mythical proportions. He only got to play on 3 albums and died at 24, so there's the never-ending "what if...?" questions that get asked over and over. It seems like the people who idolize him the most are the people who were born after he died. As the major song writer in Maiden, I think Harris' status would have been elevated to an even higher level had he died after The Number of the Beast.

I think he would have gotten a lot less attention if he hadn't used distortion and a wah, and I've long since grown tired of his fanboys saying he was the first to use those effects when he clearly wasn't. He contributed to Metallica's song writing, but too often he was buried in the mix and not easily heard. When he was easily heard it was either because he was using distortion or was the only one playing. Does anyone really care that the first minute of both Orion & Damage, Inc. is almost all bass guitar? All it is is sound effects.

I don't dislike him at all, and in fact I remember buying MoP on CD back in '87 and really loving Orion and trying to learn that whole middle section note for note, but I just think the exulted status he's been given is undeserved.

[Nev375]

Cliff Burton is what he is. But after encountering so many of his fans who appear to be close enough in IQ to Beavis and Butthead that one could count the difference in scores on one finger, I would rather say that his fans, generally speaking, are overrated.*

* this statement in no way asserts any judgment whatsoever upon the judgment of the O.P. We can and should assume that he or she is among the exceptional in the group of identified individuals and possesses fine clarity of perception and taste in matters of audible artistry required to make such assertions as demonstrated above.

[runmikeyrun]

Cliff Burton is the reason I started playing bass 20 some odd years ago. I even have a Misfits tattoo on my shoulder, not so much because I am in love with the misfits (I do enjoy them quite a bit though) but as a tribute to Cliff. That being said, I'm not a huge fan of his tone on some of the Metallica albums, and he didn't necessarily deviate from the guitar parts in his playing all that much. But his solo stuff, especially the live videos circulating of him are incredible. His distorted tone is killer, and I like how he integrated the wah in his playing. For me, that's what sells me on Cliff.

[Sartori]

Best bass player ever? No, certainly not, and besides, that's such a stupidly subjective argument.

Personally, I think his biggest contribution was the effect he had on the quality of his band's songwriting. IMO they definitely made a huge leap forward after he joined.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by hachi kid

cause he's sloppy. personally, I respect the guy. he has great feel, and when he cut loose, he was pretty melodic. but he definitely didn't sound like he practiced 6 hours a day...

When someone overrates any player there is a failure on there behalf to understand what the player is being rated for. OK listen to what he played and the first test point is usually " i can play that". But that is not the issue, he plays to fit with what is being written, not for what he can do technically.
If he practiced 6 hours a day, then maybe he was only using 10% of his ability because that is what the music could take. Put into the mix the bands success, touring, etc and playing bass is not just about what you hear or see in that one gig you go to, its everything before and after....a good player understands this.

Cliff died young and has been an influence on a lot of young players, had he lived we may have seen more of what he practiced for 6 hours a day.

[JacksonAerodyne]

I would say he is up there as one of the best but I wouldn't dare say there is a best bassist, period. There are bassists are that good at what they do and no one bassist has the exact same sound, skills etc.

Everyone seems to equate "best" with technical prowess. Lets not forget Jimmy's solo in Heartbreaker. IMO one of the best solos in Rock N Roll but sloppy as hell. For me it's the feeling and the soul in the in music one plays that makes them good, not necessarily their technical prowess.

I'm gonna get flamed for this one but whatever. I think that Geddy Lee is overrated. You always hear Geddy this, Geddy that. I don't like Rush's music and I'm not a big fan of his tone or playing, but that's just me and face it, who the hell am I?

[BassNeo]

Originally Posted by Thunder Pulse

Reading your post, and the part above in particular, I automatically assume you're a teenager. It's just flat out ignorant to think that Geddy was the only other bass player who got noticed back in the mid 80s and earlier. There were plenty of metal & rock bassists who were (and still are) well known. Just to name two, Steve Harris & Bill Sheehan. Harris is 1000x more important to Maiden than Burton was to Metallica, and Sheehan... well, Sheehan is Sheehan.

IMO, his death elevated his status to almost mythical proportions. He only got to play on 3 albums and died at 24, so there's the never-ending "what if...?" questions that get asked over and over. It seems like the people who idolize him the most are the people who were born after he died. As the major song writer in Maiden, I think Harris' status would have been elevated to an even higher level had he died after The Number of the Beast.

I think he would have gotten a lot less attention if he hadn't used distortion and a wah, and I've long since grown tired of his fanboys saying he was the first to use those effects when he clearly wasn't. He contributed to Metallica's song writing, but too often he was buried in the mix and not easily heard. When he was easily heard it was either because he was using distortion or was the only one playing. Does anyone really care that the first minute of both Orion & Damage, Inc. is almost all bass guitar? All it is is sound effects.

I don't dislike him at all, and in fact I remember buying MoP on CD back in '87 and really loving Orion and trying to learn that whole middle section note for note, but I just think the exulted status he's been given is undeserved.

Ding ding

+1

You must have been a rich kid to have a CD player in '87. I was 17 and working part time just to pay my insurance and gas back and forth to school...

[Jaswine85]

Im a former cliff fanboy as well as metallica fanboy, but now i just respect cliff. Even though he didnt play like sheehan he was pretty damn good, esp for the genre, and had awesome style.

i MUST address this issue/accusation of sloppiness!!
Cliff was not sloppy at all, in fact he was very precise. Perhaps a lil green on Kill Em All but other then that, no way. Sometimes his live solos were loose, but thats half the point, jam that crap out!

THIS is the reason you think he is sloppy: he played very hard. I forget the term, but finger plucking so hard the string hits the frets and makes a clanking noise was one of his stylistic, *intentional* trademarks. It helps a finger picker cut thru the metal mix.

Originally Posted by Thunder Pulse

his death elevated his status to almost mythical proportions. ...
there's the never-ending "what if...?"
It seems like the people who idolize him the most are the people who were born after he died.

I agree, but he was pretty damn mythical among bass players back in the day. But yeah, its true most of his biggest fans are younger

Originally Posted by Thunder Pulse

He contributed to Metallica's song writing, but too often he was buried in the mix and not easily heard. When he was easily heard it was either because he was using distortion or was the only one playing.

Yeah, the bass mixing on Ride and Puppets is criminal, dunno why its so low. If you eq right you can hear it. I think he/they wanted it to be more about the song than about lead bass all the time. You can hear all his little touches if you listen with the right EQ.

Originally Posted by Thunder Pulse

Does anyone really care that the first minute of both Orion & Damage, Inc. is almost all bass guitar? All it is is sound effects.

Um, no. In Orion, besides the intro and lead line at the beginning, the solo starting at 6:31 after post mid-section solo is all bass baby. In fact, its almost nothing but lead bass from the interlude thru the bass solo.

Most peeps dont realize its a bass solo. I didnt know till i was listening to Puppets for years.
Heres a youtube linkof a guy doing a C- grade/phoned in cover of the solo

[cfsporn]

I think people think he is overrated because, for the most part, you can't hear him play in the final mix unless you have everything set properly on your playback system and golden ears of the gods.

[SDMFJay]

given that his life was cut short, who knows what he would be like today but I think he would have grown and evolved even further into one of rocks most phenomenal bass players of all time. (even more so than his iconic status as it sits today by many)