How Much Mondy Do Successful Touring Musicans Make?

[bluesbass99]

Just a question. I was at a concert at the Great American Music Hall in SF recently and was watching a fairly well known musical group that consisted of several musicians from well known groups in the 60's and 70's. The gentleman standing next to me was a fan of the group and a musician himself. He seemed to personally know the musicians in the group and went on to tell me that most of the musicians can barely make enough to live on. This person told me the musicians in the band I was watching were the "lucky" ones and indicated the bass player and the drummer were on $5k monthly retainers.

I'm leaving out the names because the information this gentleman shared with me is certainly personal, or should have been kept that way. The two people I'm referring to are very well known.

I may be naive, but I would have thought these guys would have put away enough money and not have to live hand-to-mouth.

How much do musicians make who play in successful groups? By successful, I mean those acts that are not super stars, but tour on a regular basis and have never had a platinum selling record.

[floydman]

I think that Courtney Love has a book out on the subject of $ and musicians. A quick search brought this up- it is really long but has an interesting band budget paragraph towards the beginning.

Courtney Love does the math - Courtney Love - Salon.com
small excerpt :
"When you look at the legal line on a CD, it says copyright 1976 Atlantic Records or copyright 1996 RCA Records. When you look at a book, though, it'll say something like copyright 1999 Susan Faludi, or David Foster Wallace. Authors own their books and license them to publishers. When the contract runs out, writers gets their books back. But record companies own our copyrights forever.

The system's set up so almost nobody gets paid."

[bluesbass99]

Originally Posted by floydman

I think that Courtney Love has a book out on the subject of $ and musicians. A quick search brought this up- it is really long but has an interesting band budget paragraph towards the beginning.

Courtney Love does the math - Courtney Love - Salon.com
small excerpt :
"When you look at the legal line on a CD, it says copyright 1976 Atlantic Records or copyright 1996 RCA Records. When you look at a book, though, it'll say something like copyright 1999 Susan Faludi, or David Foster Wallace. Authors own their books and license them to publishers. When the contract runs out, writers gets their books back. But record companies own our copyrights forever.

The system's set up so almost nobody gets paid."

That's an interesting article. Fundamentally, there should be no difference between the creation and ownership of a song vs. a book. That partly explains why the older musicians have to keep working.

[sandmangeck]

5 grand a month isn't so bad. Especially when you aren't paying for travel, or hotels on the road. Food is probably taken care of too.

[tekdiver500ft]

This is also one reason why so many new artists are self-published. It just doesn't make sense to give the majority of your sales to a label, forever, even if you and the label split.

Most touring musicians barely make anything after expenses. They don't do it for the money, they do it for the love of the music. The person with whom you were talking is absolutely right. $5K a month is pretty darn good.

[scotch]

I have made zero "mondy" as a sideman.


Seriously though, being a 'touring musician', or sideman isn't going to make anybody rich! Song publishing, merchandise sales, etc. generally aren't a part of the compensation for a hired gun.

Only the top-tier guys (either legendary sidemen like Steve Gadd, Steve Jordan, Pino Pallidino, etc...) or folks who land a gig touring with a top-tier arena gig (Dave Matthews Band type success) are going to get whopping 6-figure salaries and retainers.

Most of us (check my website for a selected resume) working 'in-the-trenches' live either check-to-check or count on a few very lucrative tours a year to make the bulk of our touring income. I've been fortunate to enjoy decent retainers/salaries over the years, but usually I work as a sub-contractor making a fixed amount per show + expenses.

Some gigs pay well, others are crap. I've seen guys playing for surprisingly little for certain 'veteran' acts, and some get paid more than I would have guessed! Same goes for new artists as well. There are no real rules, the AFM union live engagement scale is a joke and working conditions vary widely as well.

Next weekend, for example, I'll be hopping in an SUV with a small band playing for an indie artist playing 5 hours out-of-town and sharing a hotel room for a couple of bills. But, in following weeks, I'll be on a plane with a signed act playing arenas opening for Taylor Swift & making more than double that playing only 4 songs a night, staying in nice hotels and not having to worry about gear, food or anything really. Then, I immediately leave that tour to hop on a bus to tour Canada with a signed act for a month making great money!
It's always a mixed bag & every 'gig' is different with different compensation.





...Being a "band member" is an entirely different ball of yarn! As always, in business, with more risk comes more reward- so if you have ownership in the band & tour, you are always taking a risk. Even U2 lost money on a couple of world tours back in the late 80's!

Touring income, for a band member/owner, relies heavily on full concert attendance and merchandise sales. If either are weak, expect to lose money. And it happens at every level, too! Even Rihanna had to cancel most of her 2011 dates. 2010 and 2011 have been the most challenging years for booking agents ever.

With this risk can come phenomenal reward, however. Guarantees for top-acts can reach over a million a show! (Of course tour expenses come out of that, but still!) Acts doing clubs & small theaters can make a decent living, if they are smart. Even indie acts are doing ok these days. It's all about good tour planning and keeping overhead (busses, trucks, production) realistic.

[markjazzbassist]

amen scotch. sidemen just get paid one of 2 way, live guys get a weekly rate (no matter show day/travel day, you make x a week on the road) and studio guys get an hourly rate (usually union rate or whatever you've worked out).

in my experience those 2 fields are mutually exclusive, you pick one or the other (again this is for everyday side men/women playing for artists on labels, not john mayers band).

if the artist your with does well enough and likes you they can retain you in the off time, meaning they pay you usually half your weekly rate (this is more a live guy thing) to be ready on their beckon call to play gigs, rehearse, etc. (so you'll have to be keeping your chops up on their tunes) and if you take another gig in that time and they need you, you have to decline that gig to hop back with the retaining artist. this is rare and mostly only for huge artists (string of hits).

i've played for some artists on major labels as a sideman for the last 6 years and never made a ton of money. it was a fun job and great travel, but don't go into it for the money, cause you'll never make it. rice and beans and a budget is more akin to what i've experienced.