How to play like Phil Lesh?

[Lobster11]

Apologies if you're here because you expected to find the answer, but I'm afraid I only have the question. (Maybe by the time you get here there will be some answers posted too.)

I've done a lot of searching around TB and elsewhere, and have found lots of discussions about Phil's equipment and tone, how much people do and don't like the Dead, and countless other topics -- but hardly anything about his playing style or technique. There is no shortage of general descriptors -- improvisational, stream-of-consciousness, "lead bass," etc. -- but I want to understand what it is exactly that he does, both theoretically and technically.

There must be folks out there who have studied Lesh's playing and/or been in GD cover bands where they've tried to cop at least some aspects of his style. I'd really like to hear about your experience and analysis. What kinds of specific musical ideas, themes, patterns, or techniques capture his unique approach. And how would one go about working on and practicing them?

[Matt Dean]

Play everything but the root and everywhere but on the beat.

[Lobster11]

Huh. For some reason I thought this was going to be more difficult....

This is great news, though, because evidently I already DO play like Lesh: I miss the root and play off the beats all the time! Of course, that's usually not on purpose....

[phxlbrmpf]

I guess this is an okay thread to confess that I keep on hearing about him and how good he is but have never got around to checking out the bands he's playing with. What are some songs to check out to get to know his style?

[Lobster11]

Originally Posted by phxlbrmpf

I guess this is an okay thread to confess that I keep on hearing about him and how good he is but have never got around to checking out the bands he's playing with. What are some songs to check out to get to know his style?

Well, this is MY thread, so I hereby proclaim that it is okay for you to ask that question here.

Lesh was the one and only bass player for the Grateful Dead for 30 years, ending when Jerry Garcia died in 1995. Since then he has played mainly with a rotating cast of characters known as "Phil and Friends." So the first answer is to listen to pretty much any Grateful Dead music. But, as anyone will tell you, you want to listen to live material -- not (at least in general) the studio versions of any song -- because they were a highly improvisational band that never played any song the same way twice. There are lots of places online to get free access to thousands of live Grateful Dead recordings. If you want some specific recommendations, pm me and I'll be more than happy to help you find some choice selections.

One reason that his style is so unique is that he was trained in classical music and played the trumpet; he had never played bass before he was drafted by the Dead (well, actually the Warlocks, but that's another story). As a result, he (to quote Garcia) doesn't play bass "like a bass" at all. That's why, at least to me, it's a really interesting question to ask: what DOES he play it like? What kinds of ideas and techniques does he use? As a previous poster implied jokingly, he seems to violate all the basic "rules" of bass. So what the hell DOES he do?

[Jazz Ad]

Originally Posted by Matt Dean

Play everything but the root and everywhere but on the beat.

That and mushrooms. Lots of mushrooms.

[John Wentzien]

Use a pick---up by the neck!

[Lobster11]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

That and mushrooms. Lots of mushrooms.

Lots of mushrooms -- got it, check. That should make it even easier to play the wrong notes in the wrong places.

Geez, this is just so much easier than I'd imagined!

[bThumper38]

Mushrooms was more of the Allman brothers thing, the dead were more into the electric kool-aid=). I dig phil though.

[behemecoytl]

Originally Posted by Matt Dean

Play everything but the root and everywhere but on the beat.

I've heard this said about Lesh before, but I don't fully understand. To my ear, it seems like he is frequently playing the root and right on the beat, while still constantly filling and jumping around in the meantime. Am I wrong?

[MNAirHead]

The play around the root is the correct thing.

Sincerely.. listen to bluegrass vocals.. the bass guy does not drone..normally they'll do a counter melody in a different octave.

His playing is kind of like a mess of fills with a brief 1/4 note on the root.

Listen to Bluegrass vocals.

Tim

[Matt Dean]

I was actually joking... Phil plays very melodic supporting lines, sort of like a orchestral trumpet player would play. Its a very unique bass style. I have many deadhead musician friends with whom I occasionally jam, and they always complain because I'm a pocket player... which Phil Lesh is certainly not in the traditional sense anyway... and of course, in some ways his sense of pocket was influence by "mushrooms." I'd say the best thing to do is to listen to the dead, learn some Phil Lesh lines and go from there.

[cggaret]

The reason why you can't find anyone who has pinned down Phil's style is the fact that his playing really varies. What he is most known for basswise is his melodic style. He'll play melodies throughout a song, sometimes playing off of the vocal, sometimes Jerry, sometimes off of the keys, sometimes out there all by himself. I've played many Dead covers over the years and the one thing that I've learned is that if you play the song the way Phil played it, you better have a drummer that knows what the song is supposed to sound like already, because they're getting no clues from you. The drummer cannot follow you if you're copping Lesh licks. If you want to learn how to play like Phil; study your theory, chord, scales and whatnot; smoke lotsa really good weed; and play with a bunch of incredibly talented hippies for about 40 years. That should get you there.

Edit: I would like to add that I in no way condone the use of illegal drugs, playing with hippies, or studying whatnot.

[John Wentzien]

Would anyone rather have a different guy in the Dead?
Not me..

[Sithian]

Hey there, huge Dead/Lesh fan here-

I can't remember where I read it, but Jerry once said that he never understood Phil's approach to playing bass until one day he listened to an entire Dead show at double speed- and this shed a light on Phil's musicality and approach... Very interesting indeed- I have been meaning to do this but haven't gotten around to it yet!

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Matt Dean

I was actually joking... Phil plays very melodic supporting lines, sort of like a orchestral trumpet player would play.

+1. He's often playing melodies, very creative IMO. But keeps a pocket going, in his way. He often plays the changes 'late' then catches up and plays through the bar line. And his time is really, really happening.
I used to be in a Dead tribute, and had to learn the style. Oddly enough a fairly firm grasp of Jazz seemed to help.
'Scarlet Begonias' or 'China Cat Sunflower' or 'Playin in the Band' are good listening. Or for something more 'pocket' oriented, check out 'Shakedown Street.'

[gotmule?]

Phil Lesh is my biggest influence as a bass player, the only problem is that its very hard to play just like him. One reason for that is probably because of his orchestra background. He played trumpet before he joined the Grateful Dead. He says in his book (great book) that he realized when he started playin with the Grateful Dead that Jerry had a very unique approach to the guitar, and Phil wanted to have an unique approach to bass.

I feel that the best way to get close to Phil's style is to listen to and watch videos of live Dead. That way you can hear his style and see how he plays. Its a very melodic style and he never plays most of the songs the same way twice. Two good songs to listen to are "Eyes of the World" and "Help on the Way".

[bigblondeafro87]

I once played in a band that did quite a few dead covers, but at the time I didn't really understand his lines. You have to listen, learn, and play along with a LOT of his lines to really get a grasp on what he's doing.

Oftentimes, it sounds like he's playing a lot of notes, while really its just his choice of notes and rythyms that make his lines sound so full while playing so little.

His sound is flat, eq-wise, usually with the highs rolled off a little and bass boosted a little. Of course, a pick and roundwounds, and about halfway between the 24th fret and the bridge.

A rythym that he uses a lot is a ghost note on the beat and and accented hit on the up beat. Where this is used at is something you just have to feel.

The Music Never Stopped, Crazy Fingers, Help on the Way, and Eyes of the World are the first four I'd reccomend for you.

Good Luck!

[bearfoot]

I think we hear the trumpet background in his lines' sustain, how he will sometimes hold notes in unusual places, as if it were a voice in a backing chord. I relate to this from having played 2nd, 3rd, and bass clarinets. All those goose eggs and half notes sustaining into the next bars.

Man, I miss that bass clarinet. Can't exactly pick one of those up for what you can get a good bass guitar for.

[slinginsix]

I think of the dead as playing "around" the chord structure of the song. All the music has a basic form, and formal chord progressions, they just "get there" as they improvise around the basic structure. As for never playing the same way twice, thats kind of incorrect, in that they play the same song structure every time, but often the song will come to a point of staying in one key, where they improvise in that key for a few measures, then find their way back to the chord stucture of the song. I guess what I'm saying is: they play the same songs in the same keys, but the "in between time" of the chords, is the improvisation. The suggested songs to listen to in the thread are all good suggestions. Scarlet Begonias, Fire on the mountain, Eyes of the World, Help on the way-slipnot-franklins tower, I'm a huge head, so ALL OF IT!!!