I just got de-friended by Carol Kaye!

[otherclef]

Originally Posted by bvdon123

I enjoy the music she made in the 60's but when she posted a comment on engineers I voiced my opinion that the mid 70's to early 80's were the pinnacle of recording because of the 24-track two inch tape and the idea of the 'concept album'. I mentioned "Aja", "Goucho", "Breakfast in America", "Back In Black", "Dark Side of the Moon", "Animals", "Rumors", etc. She said she didn't like that "music" -- too many drugs involved in the making.

Post went downhill from there.... but come on, how can any reasonable musician deny the greatness of at least some of the albums mentioned above? She is wacky.

I dont even know who she is... but all those albums you mentioned are awesome.

[Gaius46]

Originally Posted by DanBass

What is to be gained by laying claim on a song that you didn't play on? I am not being an apologist for CK, but couldn't there have been circumstances that warranted multiple players for some reason on a given track? (illness, disagreement, etc)

Seems to me in that era, there were a handful, fraternity if you will, of qualified musicians that were utilized for session work. JJ was one, CK, etc.

Unless present in the room in 1967, during the WHOLE session, without the in your face social media, cameras everywhere, instant gratification, how do we really know the intimate details?

Liner notes? Bah.

I'll take the stories. Cause they are cool to listen to. Tell me you sat in with Quincy, Sam Cooke, Ray Charles, Lou Rawls, Brian Wilson. (dream sequence......)

Carol is old school. I mean look at the Grammys now. CRAP. Look at the Academy Awards now. The clientele. Classless when compared to 35-40 years ago.

Humanity has indeed hit a pothole and lost a wheel cover.

(this is fun!)

We don't. But then there were people who were there - producers, writers, arrangers, who state unreservedly that Jamerson played on those tracks.

The Grammys got new respect from me when they gave Esperanza Spalding her Grammy so beat on them too badly.

[Audiophage]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

RE: Dark Side of the Moon, Animals and Rumours, millions and millions and millions of people disagree with you. DSOTM and Rumours are record breaking all time best selling albums.

Dude, put down the doobie and think for a second. That means that a lot of other people, including you, like those albums enough to have bought them. I happen to not really care for Pink Floyd or Fleetwood Mac myself.

Come to think of it, I probably have copies of DSotM and Rumours in my house.

Also, I've seen a video of Carol Kaye slaying Victor Wooten and Steve Bailey in a bass jam.

[DanBass]

Originally Posted by SoCal1

I think Funk Brother guitar section leader Joe Messina knows who doubled his guitar line on I Was Made To Love Her! Joe has never even MET Ms. Kaye...

And maybe there isn't a vendetta to "not give that biatch credit" because this and that and that and this? Stranger things have happened. What you seen in interviews is rarely what went on behind the studio glass.

We'll really never know. Egos and grudges are quite lengthy and strong in some circles.

My grandmother used to tell really cool stories about teh depression. Carol tells really good session stories. I am not an investigative reporter, just an active listener.

Now don't get me wrong, of course I am interested in truths, but I just don't get why she'd make it up, with her lengthy resume.

[MrDOS]

Dang -- I thought now she could accept my friend request, but someone else beat me to it:
"Sorry, this user has already reached the maximum number of friends. "

Gotta luv FB

[chuck norriss]

What is she, straight-edge? Maybe she likes Minor Threat/Fugazi. She sounds mean.

[SoCal1]

Originally Posted by DanBass

And maybe there isn't a vendetta to "not give that biatch credit" because this and that and that and this? Stranger things have happened. What you seen in interviews is rarely what went on behind the studio glass.

We'll really never know. Egos and grudges are quite lengthy and strong in some circles.

My grandmother used to tell really cool stories about teh depression. Carol tells really good session stories. I am not an investigative reporter, just an active listener.

Now don't get me wrong, of course I am interested in truths, but I just don't get why she'd make it up, with her lengthy resume.

And I am the guy who nominated The Funk Brothers for their Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award and their Star on The Hollywood Walk Of Fame. I do know of what I speak...

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

What is she, straight-edge? Maybe she likes Minor Threat/Fugazi. She sounds mean.

She does sound mean on some of those tracks.

[Audiophage]

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

What is she, straight-edge? Maybe she likes Minor Threat/Fugazi. She sounds mean.

She was doing "x's" on her hands before it was cool.

[THand]

Ok, first disclosure...I'm a fan of Carol's(mainly for TV themes from my childhood), and I've emailed her, bought materials from her, etc for years. I think she's great. She has a very grandmotherly way about her, which throws some people off. You deal with her very much, and you will almost instantly like her and you will imagine she feels the same way, or has the same respect for you. She does not. I've seen it over and over, and even had a close call myself with her once or twice. You are either a student (in which case you need to listen to her, and not argue with her), or a fan (in which case, she appreciates you but the very nature of being a fan necessitates that she be admired, and you listen to her, not the other way around), or you are an enemy (which she is well aware that she has many, and she doesn't give no quarter to an enemy).
She simply is not interested in your opinion, my opinion, or anyone else's opinion, and doesn't care to debate opinions.
She wants to teach, be admired/respected/unchallenged, or not bothered with you/me/anyone else. At her age, I really don't know that I blame her at all for this.
My advice to anyone dealing with her is to treat the experience like a buffet...listen, and take all you need and leave the rest. Don't debate or try to change her, or earn some kind of camaraderie with her..
I hate the CK threads, because the Jamerson debate/arguments always happen. I understand the Jamerson devotees being passionate, but I don't really care if she or he or anyone else played on the tracks...I'm just not that into that arguement. I wasn't there, and don't think it matters that much. I appreciate Bernadette, but it's the line I appreciate, not the player so much. Both (and others) were there and capable of the job.
As for the Macca argument, I had tried to inject some humor, because that's the first time I remember seeing Sir Paul come up so passionately in a CK thread, and thought it was a bit silly. Unlike Jamerson, Macca is still around...don't some of you super dedicated fans/historians have a way of just asking him? He does live and breath...despite rumors decades old, Paul is not dead.
Somebody, just ask him. I'm curious now, as well.

[OldDog52]

Everything I need to know about Carol Kaye is summed up in these links:

Carol Kaye - Bass Catch - YouTube

Carol Kaye - Burning Spear - YouTube

Carol Kaye, Steve Bailey, Victor Wooten Bass Session NAMM SHOW 2000 - YouTube

Carol Kaye, Marco Panascia jam at Ibanez booth NAMM 2010 - YouTube

Carol Kaye Selected Discography

The rest of it is irrelevent. Honestly I wish TB would move all CK discussion to a separate board, or a sticky thread that's heavily monitored and "she's just a crazy old lady" comments are expunged. If one TB member calls another TB'er "crazy old _____" and the meaning is clear as it could possibly be, is it permitted?

[projectMalamute]

Whenever this comes up you will notice the Jamerson believers will point to affadavits, and released master tracks, and numerous interviews with artists and producers who were actually there. Absolutely every source consulted tells the same story, there is a mountain of well documented evidence.

The Carol Kaye apologists never manage to come up with anything beyond 'I wasn't there, so who knows'.

These are not equivalent standards of evidence.

[DanBass]

Originally Posted by SoCal1

And I am the guy who nominated The Funk Brothers for their Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award and their Star on The Hollywood Walk Of Fame. I do know of what I speak...

Why would this claim be any different than Carol's? I am buying what you are selling and there is less to work with.

Maybe you are fueling the vendetta because Carol refused your advances at a recent NAMM expose?

Seriously, seems to be a lot of he said, she said, and unfortunately there is only one "she" and a boat load of "he's".

[projectMalamute]

Originally Posted by OldDog52

Everything I need to know about Carol Kaye is summed up in these links:

Carol Kaye - Bass Catch - YouTube

Carol Kaye - Burning Spear - YouTube

Carol Kaye, Steve Bailey, Victor Wooten Bass Session NAMM SHOW 2000 - YouTube

Carol Kaye, Marco Panascia jam at Ibanez booth NAMM 2010 - YouTube

Carol Kaye Selected Discography

The rest of it is irrelevent. Honestly I wish TB would move all CK discussion to a separate board, or a sticky thread that's heavily monitored and "she's just a crazy old lady" comments are expunged. If one TB member calls another TB'er "crazy old _____" and the meaning is clear as it could possibly be, is it permitted?

Crapping all over the legacy of a man who died before being given his due is not 'irrelevant'.

I have no idea if she is crazy or just a poor excuse for a human being. Looks a lot like both to me.

[DanBass]

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

Whenever this comes up you will notice the Jamerson believers will point to affadavits, and released master tracks, and numerous interviews with artists and producers who were actually there. Absolutely every source consulted tells the same story, there is a mountain of well documented evidence.

The Carol Kaye apologists never manage to come up with anything beyond 'I wasn't there, so who knows'.

These are not equivalent standards of evidence.

And there is no one to back up Carol's claims? She's just some crazy old bat with past delusions of grandeur?

I am not saying I have any of this information myself, but there must be something out there to substantiate her claims, no?

If all of the verbage and proof was in JJ's impressive corner, wouldn't the Carol myths be debunked by now?

There has to be something there other than blind loyalty.

[SoCal1]

Originally Posted by DanBass

Why would this claim be any different than Carol's? I am buying what you are selling and there is less to work with.

Maybe you are fueling the vendetta because Carol refused your advances at a recent NAMM expose?

Seriously, seems to be a lot of he said, she said, and unfortunately there is only one "she" and a boat load of "he's".

I've never met Ms.Kaye at NAMM or anywhere else and CERTAINLY never made any advances towards her LOL. I've only spoken directly with musicians, songwriters, and producers who WERE there.

[projectMalamute]

Originally Posted by DanBass

And there is no one to back up Carol's claims? She's just some crazy old bat with past delusions of grandeur?

I am not saying I have any of this information myself, but there must be something out there to substantiate her claims, no?

If all of the verbage and proof was in JJ's impressive corner, wouldn't the Carol myths be debunked by now?

There has to be something there other than blind loyalty.

You are the one perpetrating this myth. Where is your proof?

hint: you won't find any. The myth has been debunked. Over and over again. Yet people like you keep trying to chip away at the legacy of a dead man without even doing some cursory research first.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

LOL, I don't who you are, but I'm willing to bet you haven't played on a fraction of the records/tracks that CK has. We can hear the tracks she's played on, where can we hear you?

No, not a fraction. Maybe a decimal point.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Audiophage

Dude, put down the doobie and think for a second. That means that a lot of other people, including you, like those albums enough to have bought them. I happen to not really care for Pink Floyd or Fleetwood Mac myself.

Come to think of it, I probably have copies of DSotM and Rumours in my house.

Also, I've seen a video of Carol Kaye slaying Victor Wooten and Steve Bailey in a bass jam.

I will need definitive proof before I believe that.

[TC2112]

Originally Posted by Febs

I'm not suggesting that Kaye is the only studio who could have played the parts. My point is simply that she is the one who in fact did play the parts, and I don't know that we can completely discount whatever influence she may have had in the final product, which we all agree did influence McCartney.

In any event, thanks for the well-reasoned response. (Seriously.)

Thanks -you too. I enjoy a spirited debate without having to crawl through the gutter. It's kinda few and far between on here and I appreciate it.