Jack Bruces' playing in Cream live

JoeG · #1 05-07-2008, 09:07 AM

Hearing "Crossroads" & "Spoonful" for the first time made me put down the guitar I had just started learning & convince my father to get me a bass. Jack Bruces' "live" playing inspired me so strongly. I've never heard lead bass like that. All the counter melodies with Clapton were amazing. "N.S.U." & "Sweet Wine" from "Live Cream Vol 1" were just incredible. But what has always puzzled me was that Jack only played that way in Cream. I've seen him wth West, Bruce, & Lange & with his own band a couple of times & he played the bass in a way I would expect from most players. What happened to those counter melodies & rhythms? Any thoughts?

4-string · #2 05-07-2008, 10:36 AM

It seems to be generally accepted that Jack Bruce pushed EC to his limits, and made him an even better player.

Probably goes both ways.

Sneckumhaw · #3 05-07-2008, 01:57 PM

Some of his solo stuff was probably more complex and astounding than his Cream work; take Imaginary Western. He was also pretty sweet in a fusion context, Tony Williams etc. But I too have noticed a disappointing tendency in Jack, my favourite bassist overall, to play too convetionally at times. I think he just wishes to be a more rounded player, and in the process leaves some fans of his fiery genius a bit in the cold. The Cream reunion was an example of that.

McHaven · #4 05-07-2008, 02:15 PM

The entire band just pushed each member's abilities so far. They were all such independent players, and add in the fact that they couldn't stand each other half the time, and you've got people trying to step all over each other's spotlight. It may be Eric Clapton soloing, but he wasn't going to be allowed to steal the show. Luckily, they're all such great musicians that it never actually seemed like showboating or trying to battle one another. It just worked.

Crossroads has to be my favorite live rock recording of all time. It's like 3 different solos at once, all weaving in and out of one another. For me, Cream is the definition of rock and roll.

ksandvik · #5 05-07-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McHaven

The entire band just pushed each member's abilities so far. They were all such independent players, and add in the fact that they couldn't stand each other half the time, and you've got people trying to step all over each other's spotlight. It may be Eric Clapton soloing, but he wasn't going to be allowed to steal the show. Luckily, they're all such great musicians that it never actually seemed like showboating or trying to battle one another. It just worked.

Crossroads has to be my favorite live rock recording of all time. It's like 3 different solos at once, all weaving in and out of one another. For me, Cream is the definition of rock and roll.

The multitude versions of I'm So Glad are also amazing, how the bass/drums/guitar each having solos simultaneously but it all works together. Actually the Cream re-union version of I'm So Glad had less energy than the original live versions. --Kent

The Golden Boy · #6 05-07-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sneckumhaw

I too have noticed a disappointing tendency in Jack... to play too convetionally at times. I think he just wishes to be a more rounded player, and in the process leaves some fans of his fiery genius a bit in the cold. The Cream reunion was an example of that.

I'm not a fan of the "frustrated guitarist" school.

GM60466 · #7 05-07-2008, 04:00 PM

I've heard Jack play live six times and I never left disappointed. He always has a groove going.

G

JimK · #8 05-07-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeG

I've seen him wth West, Bruce, & Lange & with his own band a couple of times & he played the bass in a way I would expect from most players. What happened to those counter melodies & rhythms? Any thoughts?

IIRC, "Why Dontcha" (the tune) has those "counter melodies/rhythms".
I have a live WB&L LP...I honestly don't recall a thing about it (last spun about 35 years ago?).
I know some mentioned Clapton as the catalyst...more so, I'd say it was Baker.
Bruce & Baker had a more similar background & that love/hate thing & "I can 1-up anything you play" blah.

jerry · #9 05-07-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimK

Bruce & Baker had a more similar background & that love/hate thing & "I can 1-up anything you play" blah.

Those guys are still going at it, I saw some interviews on a recent Cream retrospective DVD and Ginger is still whining about Jacks stage volume. I also heard that in NYC for the Cream reunion they were fighting all the time.

adube810 · #10 05-07-2008, 05:08 PM

i saw one of the nights of the MSG cream reunion show and it really was great but you can tell they just wernt into it like they used to be. also the music sounded much older and slower, like their age had taken a toll on the music. but still the jams were top notch and i consider myself really lucky to have witnessed a piece of history that will probably never play again.

note: i cant believe ginger baker is still alive!

whacker · #11 05-07-2008, 05:24 PM

Another great live tune, from "Goodbye": Sittin' On Top Of The World! Awesome instrument sounds, fantastic guitar solo, and everytime I hear the end where the guitar goes off alone before the big finish (would that be called an "ostinato"?) I get goose bumps. Very effective. And Jack's singing was great as well on that one.

barbarbass · #12 05-07-2008, 05:31 PM

Yeah, there's a live version of "Crossroads" from the "Wheels of Fire" album that is probably the greatest single live rock track of all time. It is indeed, like three people soloing at once, and yet, it all works.

Notice particularly, how Bruce will echo a line played by Clapton, but alter it, in a way that is appropriate for a bassline. Clapton, as well, takes ideas from Bruce's counter-solo, and moves them up higher in the guitar's register. It works because the two, while both playing busy parts, have separated them out sonically. That song is a masterclass in improvisation and arrangement.

davetakis · #13 05-07-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-string

It seems to be generally accepted that Jack Bruce pushed EC to his limits, and made him an even better player.

Probably goes both ways.

+1 bazillion on that one.

macca1 · #14 05-07-2008, 06:48 PM

As for Jack Bruce, Sweet Wine from live Cream, Rope ladder to the moon, from Songs For A Tailor the list is endless He is the MAN !!!

Gasman · #15 05-07-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McHaven

The entire band just pushed each member's abilities so far. They were all such independent players, and add in the fact that they couldn't stand each other half the time, and you've got people trying to step all over each other's spotlight. It may be Eric Clapton soloing, but he wasn't going to be allowed to steal the show. Luckily, they're all such great musicians that it never actually seemed like showboating or trying to battle one another. It just worked.

Crossroads has to be my favorite live rock recording of all time. It's like 3 different solos at once, all weaving in and out of one another. For me, Cream is the definition of rock and roll.

Nuff said. Cream is, in my mind, the standard by which all power trios are to be judged. "Crossroads" really is one of, if not THE, best live rock performance ever captured on tape.

pedro · #16 05-07-2008, 07:12 PM

First of all welcome to the 'Jack Bruce' fan club. I've been a member since 1966. Some comments, replies to previous post and thoughts about Jack Bruce/Cream.

* Bruce and Baker played in various bands together before Cream. They both had strong jazz backgrounds whereas Clapton did not. What Cream became was quite different from anything Clapton had imagined. In his bio (IIRC), Clapton was taken by a trio featuring Buddy Guy that he had seen and I think that was his notion of what Cream would be. Bruce has said that Cream was a jazz trio but that he and Baker never told Clapton.

* IMO the genius of Bruce only begins with his bass playing. In considering his talent one has to factor in that amazing voice. I first heard Bruce with Cream at the Miami Baseball Stadium in 1968 the Shure vocal master PA gave out during 'Sitting on Top of the World'. Didn't bother Bruce at all he stepped back and continued to sing, and amazingly enough, I could still hear him. I guess his formal vocal training as a child singer paid dividends. Adddionally there is the songwriting, piano and cello and you have one of the most complete 'musicians' ever in the rock business.

* Hopefully my buddy JTE will stop by but John has said, and I agree, that Bruce is perhaps the only singing bass player who never seems to need to compromise his playing or singing while he does both. I believe JTE calls it 'the two brains of Jack Bruce'.

* My recollection of West Bruce and Lange was Bruce playing and singing circles around his bandmates.

* Jeff Berlin is a huge fan of Bruce and I've read in the past his high regard especially for the live "Crossroads'. I mean for cryin out loud who ever played bass in a blues like that before or since?

whacker · #17 05-07-2008, 07:13 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like I've read where the solo on "Crossroads" has a bit of editing done to it (or the track in general), mostly at the end when the song goes back into the last verse. Like it was originally longer or something. Comments?

jerry · #18 05-07-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedro

* Jeff Berlin is a huge fan of Bruce and I've read in the past his high regard especially for the live "Crossroads'. I mean for cryin out loud who ever played bass in a blues like that before or since?

+1, Berlin takes Clapton's solo almost note for note on bass for his version of Crossroads. He almost never does a interview without mentioning Bruce's influence on his playing.

doktorfeelgood · #19 05-07-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeG

Hearing "Crossroads" & "Spoonful" for the first time made me put down the guitar I had just started learning & convince my father to get me a bass. Jack Bruces' "live" playing inspired me so strongly. I've never heard lead bass like that. All the counter melodies with Clapton were amazing. "N.S.U." & "Sweet Wine" from "Live Cream Vol 1" were just incredible. But what has always puzzled me was that Jack only played that way in Cream. I've seen him wth West, Bruce, & Lange & with his own band a couple of times & he played the bass in a way I would expect from most players. What happened to those counter melodies & rhythms? Any thoughts?

I was inspired the exact same way in 1968. Jack Bruce is the reason I decided to switch from drums to Bass and
"Crossroads" is what did for me as well and that was also the first tune I ever learned to play on the bass. Good to see that the Jack's playing and the music transcends time and can still inspire someone to pick up the bass.
This video has been around for awhile but check it out. It's pretty amazing. )-(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI8SUc2SV4k

jerry · #20 05-07-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimK

IIRC, "Why Dontcha" (the tune) has those "counter melodies/rhythms".
I have a live WB&L LP...I honestly don't recall a thing about it (last spun about 35 years ago?).

I remember as a kid playing along with that record and loving the groove of 'Powerhouse Sod', I also remember being blown away by his ability to sing over that riff.