Jaco...and naming names...

[fretlessrock]

The Hendrix comparison is apt, in my opinion. But the metrics that are being used in this thread are misleading.

Comparing a mainstream rock musician during a time when rock was immensly popular and jazz was in decline, to a jazz musician who's career coincided with what I consider to be a historic lowpoint for jazz popularity and jazz playing/writing in general... well it is pretty much apples to elephants. Bad rock acts in 1969, guys who never even had a decent single, outsold major jazz acts by large margins. Bands like Weather Report, Pat Metheny Group, and other electric-based bands were leading sellers in the jazz market and couldn't even come close to to the sales of one hit wonders in pop and disco (in terms of sales and popularity). Radio and Television were popularizing rock to the exclusion of pretty much everything else. Just like today.

Lots of ground breaking musicians toiled in obscurity. Again, because I think my point was missed in the first post: Critics and their opinions don't define anybody's work, they define the critics. They may be part of the historical record, but they don't mean a thing regarding the artist's accomplishments. Monk, Parker, Mingus, Basie, Miles, Miles, Miles, Miles... all took huge amounts of heat from critics and thier contemporaries. History tends to make the motivations of a lot of those critics clear.

Now everybody gets to post opinions on a forum that can be read by millions. So you see folks saying "Jaco is the Greatest" and folks saying "Jaco is overrated" and folks saying "Jaco is a hack, I hate his playing". It is a social wardrobe issue. As in: See! I'm wearing a "Jaco Sucks" T-Shirt. (metaphorically). It says something about the poster, nothing concrete about the artist. If you want facts, get out of the music business. Become an accountant.

</talkbass anthropology rant>

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by djcruse

Didn't we have this exact same thread about a month ago?

Even if people do drop Jaco's name, so what? What does that prove? Where does that get us?

I can't believe we're discussing this again.

That's exactly what I was saying and how I feel about this!

[dougjwray]

Okay, before this thread gets extinguished like a cigarette getting stomped on, I'll just add this observation about his influence:
The Fender Jazz Bass may just be the world's most widely used electric bass. It has just three pickup settings: 1) Neck only; 2) Various blends of neck and bridge; and 3) Bridge only. Jaco "owned" no. 3 for many years (and maybe still does). To illustrate: many times I'd be in the studio, just fooling around with setting no. 3, and the producer would say, "No, I don't want the 'Jaco tone' on this..." In the bass world, no matter whether it was jazz, funk, folk, heavy metal, blues, country or whatever, soloing the bridge pickup on a Jazz Bass was the "Jaco tone", take it or leave it. Even synthesizers had a patch called the "Jaco tone", which aped this basic setting on the most common instrument. Pretty mind-boggling, isn't it? He gave a lot to us, but took away, too. What do I mean? Here's another example: fretless bass. Jeff Berlin (a very, VERY accomplished player) said that he couldn't even pick up a fretless bass after Jaco because he was sure he'd become a clone.
Even if you don't like his style or the genre he operated in, this is something to stop and ponder, I think.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Futurebass

Hendrix broke through racial barriers in rock. Jaco-NA

Kinda in reverse-
Jaco brought white "rock-types" to Weather Report shows. Joe Zawinul has said this in interviews, etc.
Jaco's tenure with Joni Mitchell, too, exposed him to many a non-Jazz/non-bass playing listener.

[dougjwray]

+1

[f'nar f'nar]

I think people got the way wrong Idea with what Im trying to say in this thread... Ok, I'll try and make it easier cause I realise my first few posts didnt quite get the poing across...

1. I dont dislike Jaco, I respect him and he's a brilliant player.

2. I'm very well aware other people like him, and good for them, thats not the point.

3. I'm also aware of people who DONT like him saying they love him to get street credit. THATs what I'm trying to say.

4. This thread wasnt to discuss what Jaco did or didnt do. In fact, I could have used ANY OTHER GOOD BASSIST. Like victor wooten for instance. Im trying to say, people who clearly know very little about what he did or dont even like his stuff use his name to gain credit.

Its like if you ask a metal bassist who is favourite bassist is, and him saying: 'Oh, I love Alex Webster, Cliff Burton, RObert Trujillo, Geezer etc etc *instert many death metal bassists here* and Jaco.' Theres something about that I just dont understand. It just seems that some people use his name to make themselves seem more musically stretched.



Finally, I appologise for not clearly posting my point at the beginning. Sorry. No Hard feelings.

[jbennardo]

This board introduced me to Jaco. I've downloaded a few tracks and for the most part, think the music as a package is weird. However, I've definitely been influenced by his style. For a while, I felt pressure to like the music because of the vast amount of people who raved about Jaco. I guess I figured out that one can appreciate technique and style without having to like the songs. There is some pretty cool stuff though.

A bit more on topic, I'm guilty of dropping his name because he's the flavor of the month right now. A few months back all I could talk about was Cliff Burton. It's just unfortunate I found these guys too late.

[AuG]

I think anyone who even takes the time to respod to a thread like this has already voiced their opinion on Jaco at some point or another. But hey I'll do it again. I heard about him about 2 years ago, and decided to go out and buy Word of Mouth because of the track Chromatic Fantasy. Unfortunately I wasn't very impressed and didn't listen to the album all that much for the next year or so. I eventually got intrigued again and bought his solo album. I'm glad I did. Although I've listened to his stuff for a while now, it is starting to get a little old and boring, so I don't listen to his grooves that much anymore. I know how incredibly talented he was, and unlike some people around here I tend to give credit where credit is due. Occasionally I do get into the "jaco" mood, and I sit back and just listen
Unfortunately there's some members here that are on a mission *coughbrucecough* and posting about wasting time posting is just...well...a waste of time. At least I got a laugh out of it at work.

Side note for FutureBass: I guess Portrait of Tracy wasn't really groundbreaking or influential or anything was it? What about Donna Lee?

[zombywoof5050]

Originally Posted by f'nar f'nar

..people who DONT like him saying they love him to get street credit. THATs what I'm trying to say..
..It just seems that some people use his name to make themselves seem more musically stretched..

I don't think I've witnessed this practice.
When someone says they appreciate Jaco, I believe them.
If you know people are lying to you in this way, then just let it pass. If it bothers you, then confront them about it (if you feel that will serve any useful purpose).