Jaco Pastorius's Ability

[jackotheclown]

Hey Guys,

The question I am about to ask is for my research to do with a assignment I have been given at college, any input from anyone would be very welcome!

Jaco Pastorius was a pioneer in the musician world, his speed was incredible, his endurance was phenomenonal, and creativity was genius. Even now after nearly 20 years he still doesnt fail to amaze us all in every way. But my question is, after nearly two decades since Jaco died, has he been supassed technically as a bass player?

Please people share your thoughts and opinions.

- Jackie

[moogboy]

in the Rock world, John Entwistle and Chris Squire were worlds ahead of Jaco. in Jazz, i think that Jaco has yet to be surpassed. then again, i dont consider Victor Wooten or Stanley Clarke Jazz.

[Kasper007]

IMO this thread is useless, and it has been done a lot before. I don't get it that people want to compare musicians' abilities, I think it's absurd, and VERY personal. If I watch videos on Youtube 80 percent of the time there are comments like "Flea is better than Claypool" etc etc, I don't see why you'd want to repeat that over and over again.

The bassline on Joni Mitchells 'Coyote' is still one of my all time favorites, but who am I to say that for example Jaco's playing is better than Myungs?

[Mojo-Man]

Jaco was Jaco.

Judge each player on what he, or she, brings to the table.

I'm old enought to have seen Jaco play live, many times.
He was completly fresh and new back in the early 70's.
The Jimi Hendrix of bass.

But so was Jack Bruce, Jeff Berlin, Stanley Clark, Jonas Hellborg.
Anthony Jackson, James Jamerson, ect.

Just enjoy.

[James Hart]

Originally Posted by Mojo-Man

Judge each player on what he, or she, brings to the table.


[snip]

Just enjoy.

Well said! We aren't in a race, it's all about the song.


That said, as for the OP, if you think Jaco's level hasn't been met and even exceeded, you haven't been listening to enough players!

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by jackotheclown

Hey Guys,

The question I am about to ask is for my research to do with a assignment I have been given at college, any input from anyone would be very welcome!

Jaco Pastorius was a pioneer in the musician world, his speed was incredible, his endurance was phenomenonal, and creativity was genius. Even now after nearly 20 years he still doesnt fail to amaze us all in every way. But my question is, after nearly two decades since Jaco died, has he been supassed technically as a bass player?

Please people share your thoughts and opinions.

- Jackie

I agree there is no need to rate people and what good is technical ability if you have no musical taste?

Jaco was about a new concept for electric bass - soloing like a horn player - injecting a new groove and feel into Jazz that hadn't been there before.

It was all about music - creating something new out of elements that had existed before.

Jaco was about note choice, melodic playing on electric bass - cello-like vibrato and sustain etc. etc.

Music is not a competitive sport and there's no need to say that one player would "beat" another for technique - we can enjoy great playing wherever it comes from!

I own CDs with Jaco playing - and with any number of great bass players - I can like them all without caring about whether one person is better than another!

[Eli_Upright12]

Had many electric players before him brought Pinch/Artificial Harmonics to the table as he had? thats maybe something you could talk about. I dont know though I listen to Weather report, but Im not sure how many bassists were actually usuing that technique before him, I know on Upright they date back to at least Bottesini in the mid 19th century.

[bassist15]

There is no one right answer for this question . Its all about personal opinion.

[jackotheclown]

Thanks guys

I want people to look at this from a technical perspective, not creatively. For example Jimi hendrix was another pioneer similar to jaco (like someone said before). But I beileve he has been technically supassed by players today, for example john petrucci from dream theater. I mean I would much rather listen to hendrix any day but technically he isnt as good. Now I am not sure about Jaco so I need some more help.

Come on people help me out here the is for my research for an assigmnet remember, I just need different opinions about the matter at hand.

Cheers

[Human Bass]

His left hand was quite unique.

[IanStephenson]

Originally Posted by jackotheclown

Jimi hendrix was another pioneer similar to jaco (like someone said before). But I beileve he has been technically supassed by players today, for example john petrucci from dream theater.

That may be true, but "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" (or some such - go look it up).

Rock Guitar-wise I think Hendrix and Van Halen are distinct, in that you can identify guitar played before, and after they released their breakthrough works - they CHANGED the instrument. It's pretty easy for anyone to come along afterwards and copy it, and perfect it. Petrucci had Hendrix to copy from, so he had a massive head start.

Computers today are massivly better than the machines of the 40's and 50's. I could easily design you a machine from scratch that would blow away the machines that geniuses like Turing and Von Neumann designed. Proves I'm reasonably smart, but doesn't put me in their league. Every engineering student can do it now, but it took talent to do it first.

It's easy to copy, and refine. It's harder to take leaps.

Of course other players are technically able to play pieces that Jaco wrote, and perhaps play them better, but they've just had to do the refining - not the inventing.

Ian

[beggar98]

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

It's easy to copy, and refine. It's harder to take leaps.

I think that sums it up right there.

Spend some time searching youtube and you'll find plenty of players nailing everything Jaco played, note for note. Does that mean they're as good as Jaco?

[DocBop]

To me great player are about What they played not the technique used. Miles Davis is one of the greatest improvisors is history, but his technique was all over the place. In fact his sputter and such became part of his sound. Keith Jarrett amazing piano player, but watch him play and looks painful.

It's what comes out not how they did it.

[shane_f]

Originally Posted by beggar98

I think that sums it up right there.

Spend some time searching youtube and you'll find plenty of players nailing everything Jaco played, note for note. Does that mean they're as good as Jaco?

Not really. They are good bassists don't get me wrong I would love to be able to play Jaco's stuff, but unless they can play someting different but of the same style on the spot then they aren't as good as Jaco

To answer your question Jack, in my opinion Jaco has not been surpassed technically

Does that answer your question?

[fretless Bob]

if we are talking technique alone here than i think he has been surpassed, go on youtube and check out some of the clips of Matt Garrison, he has scary technique and has this whole right hand thing that he invented (if you didnt already know) and can pull off things that i thought were impossible until i saw him play.

also check out Richard Bona, Janek Gwizdala ect.

at the time that he came out he really did push the limits of what people thought was possible on the bass, i wasnt around to see it myself but i have been told by many players that thought Jack Bruce was the best bass player around until Jaco came out and blew everyone away, just have a listen to "Donna Lee" from his 1st solo album, if you ever try and learn it you'll realise how mind blowing that is and to think that we have become acustomed to bass players playing that way as we listen to guys that where influenced by him, think what that would of been like if you heard it for the first time in 76'

EDIT: just some food for thought, i still dont think anyone has surpassed his pitch and dexterity on the fretless bass though, i have very good pitch, to the point where if someone instrument is a little out of tune it will drive me nuts but Jaco's pitch was insane, he was still human so he would make the odd slight slip but he was 98% of the time SPOT ON!


Dave

[beggar98]

Originally Posted by shane_f

Not really. They are good bassists don't get me wrong I would love to be able to play Jaco's stuff, but unless they can play someting different but of the same style on the spot then they aren't as good as Jaco

To answer your question Jack, in my opinion Jaco has not been surpassed technically

Does that answer your question?

Thats what I was saying.

People will mention Bona or Wooten or Garrison as guys whose technique surpasses Jaco's, but they all had the advantage of using what Jaco did to build on. Its nearly impossible to compare players from different eras, and in his time Jaco was head and shoulders above the rest of the world.

[dabassr]

One way of seeing the contributions of innovators like Jaco, Hendrix, Van Halen and others is that in raising the technical (and creative) bar, they give the rest of us something to tangible emulate. But there is a difference. A given player may be able to study and learn to play Havanoa or Eruption, however, being able to copy a Rembrant doesn't make you Rembrant. These incredibly creative individuals change the art. Who is better is only relevant to individual tastes.

[Jazz Ad]

Originally Posted by jackotheclown

But my question is, after nearly two decades since Jaco died, has he been supassed technically as a bass player?

If we speak purely technique, I think most fusion players these days would easily outplay him.
It's far from being the most important aspect of musicianship though.

[Baryonyx]

Technically, he has been outdone many, many times.

However, you can't quantify how good a song is, so how do you argue that he has been outdone? I mean, imo, his music has been bettered a billion times over from everyone to Jonas Hellborg to Rush, but music is not a competition, it's an art form, so chill.

[Marcus Willett]

In terms of technique, it depends on how you define it. Are there players nowadays who play faster licks/runs/whatever than Jaco? Sure.

But playing fretless, as in tune and as fluid and clear and precise as Jaco (at his prime...sadly, towards the end of his life it all went to crap in short order) I would submit no one has surpassed or even equalled his technical prowess.

Sure, Bona is great (I dig his playing a lot) and Matt Garrison and Gary Willis are both phenomenal players. But particularly when it comes to playing the fretless bass precisely and in tune consistently...I'm sorry, no one can touch Jaco. I've heard just about anyone you can name. There are tons of fantastic players out there; but Jaco's level of precision on the fretless bass has never been equalled, nor do I think it ever will be.

Now fretted bass? Sure I could see him being surpassed; at least technically (which is only a small part of the puzzle, IMO), but fretless? Nope, sorry.