Jaco: Pat Boone of Funk?

flatwoundfender · #1 02-20-2006, 01:13 AM

I see all these post on talkbass juxtaposing Jaco to the likes of James Jamerson, George Porter Jr., Bootsy, Duck Dunn, Rocco Prestia, etc. Then I listen to tracks by Jaco and I think Pat Boone. While I will say he was great at playing saxaphone lines on the bass he's not a funky so stop equating him to the funkmasters.

TheSuzie · #2 02-20-2006, 01:36 AM

Couldn't help but LOL at the title. I think you have a point in that people tend to use Jaco's name in the same breath with players who play very different genres of music. Jaco did not really play funk, he mostly played a style of fusion that leaned heavily toward the traditional jazz sounds - even more so than Stanley Clarke. I see Jaco as more of a link between the older upright players and the newer generation of chops oriented fusion players. While he sure as hell could groove and use some funky elements, he was primarily a jazz player and not a funk player.

Sometimes I think people are just trying to list players that they feel are very talented, not compare their styles. There is no doubt that Jaco was a great talent and an innovator within the styles that he played - just not funk.

Peace,
S

flatwoundfender · #3 02-20-2006, 01:44 AM

Traditional saxaphone parts. He people call him a grooving bass player, no, Jamerson grooved, Jaco played melodies. Lots of times he's not even holding a groove. That's the primary purpose of the bass player. I just see him as the guy who made a bunch of bass players want to play way to busy. He's elevated to a god like status so all the new bass players want to learn to play that stuff and then they get to a real gig and just annoy the rest of the band because no one is holding the groove.

ArwinH · #4 02-20-2006, 03:07 AM

Jaco could groove, and I hear that a lot in his music. He played funky sometimes and itw as groovin. Did he ever really slap? no....doesn'y mean he didn't funk it up. What songs are you guys listnening to? I mean the lines in teentown even, very funky in the way they sit. Maybe it's not traditional funk in the sense of bootsy, but it's funky.

jerry · #5 02-20-2006, 03:16 AM

Has it been a month already?

Bruce Lindfield · #6 02-20-2006, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry

Has it been a month already?

Yup - time for our regularly-scheduled : "I don't get Jaco " thread!

dharma · #7 02-20-2006, 03:19 AM

Apparently.

Next, somebody's gonna bash Fieldy.

Rinse. Repeat.

Megavega4 · #8 02-20-2006, 03:26 AM

Are you out of your mind? He funks in a VERY Rocco Prestia kind of way. Funk does not mean slap bass all the time. Check out his groove on "Come On, Come Over" or "The Chicken." What makes Jaco even more amazing is his sense of time and groove, being able to play melodies while being funky.

FunkyXL · #9 02-20-2006, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArwinH

Jaco could groove, and I hear that a lot in his music. He played funky sometimes and itw as groovin. Did he ever really slap? no....doesn'y mean he didn't funk it up. What songs are you guys listnening to? I mean the lines in teentown even, very funky in the way they sit. Maybe it's not traditional funk in the sense of bootsy, but it's funky.

Sorry, but Jaco was not a funk player. It doesn`t really matter what he played it always came down to jazz .Even when he was playing reggae he had a jazz sound. And btw... playing a groove is not the same as playing funk. Except maybe for the song come on, come over Jaco was all jazz.

Bruce Lindfield · #10 02-20-2006, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyXL

Sorry, but Jaco was not a funk player. It doesn`t really matter what he played it always came down to jazz .Even when he was playing reggae he had a jazz sound. And btw... playing a groove is not the same as playing funk. Except maybe for the song come on, come over Jaco was all jazz.

So what experience are you basing this on - what evidence?

FunkyXL · #11 02-20-2006, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

So what experience are you basing this on - what evidence?

isnt it obvious? ...just listen (<-- experience) to any of his records (<-- evidence) and you`ll hear jazz, not funk.

fretlessrock · #12 02-20-2006, 05:16 AM

Jaco + Pat Boone =

Bruce Lindfield · #13 02-20-2006, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyXL

isnt it obvious? ...just listen (<-- experience) to any of his records (<-- evidence) and you`ll hear jazz, not funk.

Which records are you talking about specifically?

fretlessrock · #14 02-20-2006, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatwoundfender

I see all these post on talkbass juxtaposing Jaco to the likes of James Jamerson, George Porter Jr., Bootsy, Duck Dunn, Rocco Prestia, etc. Then I listen to tracks by Jaco and I think Pat Boone. While I will say he was great at playing saxaphone lines on the bass he's not a funky so stop equating him to the funkmasters.

Just to clarify *why* I find this misleading and troll-like: Except for Bootsy you have listed R&B bassists as opposed to "funk" bassists. Even Porter is more of an R&B player. Jaco was firmly rooted in R&B but he also had a jazz player for a father and got exposed to a lot of jazz. Yes, he played sax lines, if you mean melodic elements, on bass. You should try it some time. He took that R&B sensibility and the jazz sense of composition and dynamics and used the bass to bring it together. A nice choice, IMO.

But to say that Jaco is some kind of watered down blue eyed soul act is simply begging for a slap down. Just because he wasn't making like Parliment doesn't mean that he wasn't funky. Just as him not writing or arranging like Gil Evans doesn't take away from his jazz cred.

FunkyXL · #15 02-20-2006, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Which records are you talking about specifically?

I said any record. I probably dont have all his stuff, but the record i do have (his solo albums, live albums, weather report albums) i hear jazz.
And like i said, even when was playing a reggae song he gave a jazzy feeling to it.

If you dont agree with me Bruce thats fine ofcourse

So why do think Jaco is a funky bassplayer then?

Matt Till · #16 02-20-2006, 06:27 AM

So songs like c'mon come over aren't funk songs?

I'm not over the moon about Jaco like some, but the man could funk when he wanted to.

Pat Boone... that's just a cheap shot.

flatwoundfender · #17 02-20-2006, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fretlessrock

Just to clarify *why* I find this misleading and troll-like: Except for Bootsy you have listed R&B bassists as opposed to "funk" bassists. Even Porter is more of an R&B player. Jaco was firmly rooted in R&B but he also had a jazz player for a father and got exposed to a lot of jazz. Yes, he played sax lines, if you mean melodic elements, on bass. You should try it some time. He took that R&B sensibility and the jazz sense of composition and dynamics and used the bass to bring it together. A nice choice, IMO.

But to say that Jaco is some kind of watered down blue eyed soul act is simply begging for a slap down. Just because he wasn't making like Parliment doesn't mean that he wasn't funky. Just as him not writing or arranging like Gil Evans doesn't take away from his jazz cred.

You obviously don't know a thing about funk if say George Porter wasn't funky. He's quite possibly the funkiest man alive. Have you ever listened to a meters album? I also suggest you check out some Jamerson lines sometimes. He played basslines that pushed the melody and the vocalist out, not the melody. And many were quite funky, especially in the later period. As for not getting "Jaco" a comon excuse I find on Grapeshot, it's not a lack of understanding. I like all sorts of jazz from Lewie Armstrong early dixieland stylings to Coltranes Acension. I like fusion with people like Ron Carter or even Lee Sklar, hell I even like Return to Forever with Stanley Clarke. These guys for all times,or most of the time in the case of Stanley Clarke, held a solid groove down. I know it doesn't need to be funky to groove, but Jaco wasn't a grooving machine. Plus he invented maybe the most annoying tone a bass could have. Jamerson displayed his virtuosity a bass that Jaco probably couldn't get through a set on.

FunkyXL · #18 02-20-2006, 06:41 AM

I mentioned come on, come over already (thats funky indeed).

I`m not saying that Jaco could not play funk.. he just didnt do it... It was mostly jazz. From that perspective he was not a funk bassplayer.

ArwinH · #19 02-20-2006, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkyXL

I mentioned come on, come over already (thats funky indeed).

I`m not saying that Jaco could not play funk.. he just didnt do it... It was mostly jazz. From that perspective he was not a funk bassplayer.

It seems like you're just bashing him because of the style of music he played in, which is admittedly fusion.....not funk.

That doesn'y say anything about his playing within that style. Christian McBride spoke of mhis music and said that he wants to visit a lot of different styles like funk or rock, but keep everything firmly rooted in jazz. That's a pretty good way od describing things. Jaco played a lot of lines that are just dripping with funk, he has the finger funk, the muting, and the sisxteenth runs in his playing that are all very funky. I just went through teentown again, and I had forgotten some of the little things he does that are just super funky. He might not have been a funk bassplayer, but he sure was a funky fusion player.

fretlessrock · #20 02-20-2006, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatwoundfender

You obviously don't know a thing about funk if say George Porter wasn't funky. He's quite possibly the funkiest man alive. Have you ever listened to a meters album? I also suggest you check out some Jamerson lines sometimes. He played basslines that pushed the melody and the vocalist out, not the melody.

etc...

I'm not saying anything about these guys not being funky. I know plenty about funk. I also never said Porter isn't funky. I said that if you bring Bootsy into the argument then Porter is more of an R&B guy.

What I'm saying, if you want to read and not just keep getting defensive, that your premise is flawed. Why do you feel so much stronger about a jazz player turned R&B/Soul/Funk player like Jamerson compared to a R&B/Soul/Funk player turned jazz player like Jaco? Why knock Jaco at all? Where is this supposed army of people calling Jaco a funk player? The whole argument reeks of strawman junk.