Jaco vs ?

tabufx50 · #1 06-30-2008, 04:36 PM

Yeah I remember back in the day before I discovered Jaco Pastorius, I was a Geedy Lee and Steve Harris freak and loved the bashing rock style of bass.

But after I first heard the heavy weather soundtrack and then Jaco's own solo album that he made at 24 yrs old, I was in awe of Jaco and wanted to try and attempt to play some of the stuff he was playing on bass. Well as soon as reality hit while trying to learn some of Jaco's riffs, I just kept playing in hopes that one day i could play like that.

So getting to my point of this thread...since that day I discovered the phenom that was Jaco, I have yet to hear any bassist out there that can play like him. Yeah sure you get the posers that copy what he did, but they truly lack the soul and rhythm that Jaco possessed.

I mean I have seen in person bass players like Marcus, Bunny Brunel, and even Victor Wooten and although they are killer bass players, they just don't give me those goose bumps like when I hear "Coyote" from Joni mitchels live album with Jaco and Pat metheny.

As the saying goes..."There was bass before Jaco...and then bass after Jaco.."

So Jaco is still in a league all by himself..even after being dead for more than 20 years...

Your thoughts?

UncleBalsamic · #2 06-30-2008, 04:43 PM

Not meaning to be rude or anything but there have countless threads (probably up in the millions by now

) so maybe a search is in order?

But, for the sake of fresh discussion I will say that I don't think that anyone has or will surpass Jaco in innovation stakes. Not to say that Jaco is the best (as some people might), but he did do a lot for electric bass as an instrument.

GreyBeard · #3 06-30-2008, 04:51 PM

I can relate to this as I was changed by my first hearing of Jaco.

tabufx50 · #4 06-30-2008, 05:15 PM

yeah you're right uncle balsamic....I probably should've searched out other Jaco threads..but hey that's what is cool about forums eh...I can write about what i feel like writing about at the time.

Thunderthumbs73 · #5 06-30-2008, 05:18 PM

Jaco versus Da Bears?

Da... ...Bears!

kesslari · #6 06-30-2008, 05:50 PM

Jaco vs. Godzilla?

GODZILLA!!

VroomVroom · #7 06-30-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderthumbs73

Jaco versus Da Bears?

Da... ...Bears!

Is dat wit da mini Ditka, or is he full size?

Comparing is worthwhile for finding common ground, but really...how about appreciating all THE cats as individuals? Victor, for example, inspires me in many of the same ways Jaco did. But, I don't think of them as one versus the other.

Jaco is definitely timeless. His tone and ideas would be as valid today as they were 30 years ago. And when you're exhausted listening to him as a musician, we can always just appreciate him as a composer. Liberty City, as but one example? Ridiculous.

Tom O'Malley · #8 07-01-2008, 09:51 AM

what do you all think of his improv? listening to it, some of his live solos just seem like experimentation, and not all of it succesful. on the other hand, he occasionally just hits the nail on the head and really drives home a point with it. so really, the question is do you think his improv was anywhere near as good as his playing on record?

Marcury · #9 07-01-2008, 10:22 AM

Hulk Hogan

VroomVroom · #10 07-01-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom O'Malley

do you think his improv was anywhere near as good as his playing on record?

Yes, and no. The guy was always reaching for something new. When he was, ahhh, chemically balanced, his playing was nothing short of extraordinary. When things were "not so much," it could be a bit difficult to listen. He was undoubtedly a unique musical voice with a virtuoso's technique, so IMO there's something to gain from everything he played.

BuffaloBass · #11 07-01-2008, 10:45 AM

Unfortunately, the only live J I caught was in chem imbalanced mode. Just to show he was no god, just a raggedy ol human like the rest of us.

It wasnt until I heard him backing Joni Mitchell's voice on Hejira that I realized his complete mastery of the instrument in ANY context. He sure did set the bar, and it remains. RIP J, we still love ya.

JTE · #12 07-01-2008, 10:48 AM

vs? Why? Is music something to be contested, and if so, by what standards? This is the kind of thinking that makes music an athletic event. We can't quantify an objective standard for "good music" (I like Duke Ellington's definition*). So, if it's a contest it must be something quantifiable, and people resort to silly stuff like how fast they can play.

I love Jaco's music and what he did for how the bass is perceived in so many styles of music. But is he "better" than Jerry Jemmott, or Emory Gordy Jr?. Nah, he's just a different player with a much different vision.

So, there's no "versus" to be considered here, it's just appreciation for different approaches to music.

*Duke Ellington, when asked if he considered his music to be jazz, replied "THere're only two kinds of music. Music that sounds good, and whatever you want to call that other stuff."

jte

Tom O'Malley · #13 07-01-2008, 10:56 AM

[quote=VroomVroom;5932916]guy was always reaching for something new.[quote]

i think thats really it. i have the feeling that if he wanted to, he could have banged out an infinite number of rather interesting solos during his live improvs, but they would have bored him. he was always reaching for something new, experimenting, hoping to discover something truly different. and he did this at the expense of wow-ing the crowd with another "hey, that jaco guy sure can groove" solo. and that willing to experiment, even live on stage, even if it "failed", is a large part of what makes jaco, jaco.

tabufx50 · #14 07-01-2008, 11:31 AM

Well it's like trying to compare Jimmy Hendrix to other great guitarists out there..yeah some others are more technical and stuff..but it's the feel part of Jimmy that is hard to beat.

The same with Jaco...I mean he was an international star on bass guitar in his early 20's ...and his stage presence was amazing. That is undeniable and something that only a handful of bass players will ever attain. Jaco was a legend..he changed bass forever!!

CraigG · #15 07-01-2008, 11:43 AM

I think it's safe to say Jaco was in a class by himself. Of course, as much as some have deified Jaco for his playing, I would contend that there have been and are other bass players that have done things on bass that Jaco couldn't have/wouldn't have done or even thought of doing.

I agree that the role of bass was forever impacted and challenged because of Jaco, but other players have brought the roll of bass guitar to new levels in ways that Jaco did not. I suspect what has resulted in Jaco becoming an icon that seems to overshadow all other bass players (in the eyes of some) was the man himself, the mystery behind him and the tragedy of his life and death, as much as much as what he accomplished on bass guitar.

rappa29 · #16 07-01-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kesslari

Jaco vs. Godzilla?

GODZILLA!!

I was thinking Gamera myself or Mothera or MechaGodzilla or Rodan or....

Snarf · #17 07-01-2008, 12:03 PM

Man this thread is going to be long.

He wrote okay solos. He improvised mostly poor ones. I don't buy into the Jaco hype. Any of the cats out there making their names can easily outplay Jaco. Yes, he was the first "rock star" bassist, and that cult of personality, as well as the fact that OMG he took out his frets OMG, are what convince people that he was the best. But Stanley Clarke destroyed Jaco as his contemporary.

anechoic · #18 07-01-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rappa29

I was thinking Gamera myself or Mothera or MechaGodzilla or Rodan or....

Barbara Streisand? Robert Smith? The lock?

funkometer · #19 07-01-2008, 02:05 PM

Jaco vs JAUQO III-X, ROFL

buckminster · #20 07-01-2008, 02:59 PM

These are the kinds of threads I really hate. Vs.? Come on, wasn't that a Pearl Jam album...

If you have heard Jaco and you don't get it, then you never will. His solo on Havona almost always gives me shivers. And he was a great composer and arranger. Many accomplished bassists can't make that claim or even come close to what he did in that arena. 'Nuff said.