Jamerson's settings and style...

JackCrockett · #1 11-06-2008, 05:52 PM

I've really been getting into Motown lately, and of course, that means JAMES JAMERSON!

Just a few questions...

What type of set up did Jamerson have? Gauge strings? Action? Flats or rounds? Any other interesting facts about his ax and set-up??

Commreman · #2 11-06-2008, 06:53 PM

Look Here:

the Late Great James Jamerson..

Pick up "Standing in the Shadows of Motown." These sources will tell you all you want to know!

One Drop · #3 11-07-2008, 01:27 PM

Just to recap the relevant facts from that thread and other sources, he used stock standard split coil P basses from from the late '50s to early '60s, the huge Labella flats that are now called the Original or Jamerson set, muted with the foam strip that used to come under the bridge cover, tone and volume knobs wide open, and he played with only a hooked index finger on his right hand most of the time, sometimes a second finger or thumb, but rarely. He had very high action and a lot of neck bow, and very strong hands.

He was recorded at Motown through a custom tube preamp, direct to the board, and he would push the level into the red to get a surprising amount of breakup. His signal was heavily compressed for the mix.

Live he used an Ampeg B-15 or a Kustom 2 x 15 combo, bass way up and pushed hard from what I can tell.

JTE · #4 11-07-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commreman

Look Here:

the Late Great James Jamerson..

Pick up "Standing in the Shadows of Motown." These sources will tell you all you want to know!

Well, I plowed through that thread, and there's nothing about gear there. I see that Ond Drop covered what the OP asked mostly.

In a Dan Forte interview with Jamerson (published in Guitar Player Magazine sometime in the mid- to late-'70s) James said he hated new strings, and that he generally set the amps (either one) with full bass and no treble. There's a live recording of James playing bass around that time too. It's Joan Baez's "From Every Stage". Yep, Joan Baez had Jamerson as her bassist on a tour (along with Larry Carlton on guitar). I don't know if it was the Ampeg or the Kustom, but that should give you an idea of what his amplified sound was like.

Another factor is that he by all accounts never cleaned things, and his neck had quite a bit of bow in too. Now, to cut to the chase. If you're trying to duplicate his sound, first realize that most if it's in the hands, not the gear. But any good split-coil P bass (an alder body will be more apporpriate than an ash body) with old-style flats and a mute installed will be the key equipment part. But so much of the "sound" is the physical approach (plucking with one finger clear up between the PUP and the neck fore example) and his use of open strings even if out of key.

But a vital factor is the clear, uncluttered low end of the other stuff on Motown recordings. The guitars generally aren't playing big fat chords nor are they playing down on the fifth and sixth strings much. The kick drum isn't nearly as heavy as it is in post Led Zep recordings. The keys aren't bottom heavy either (both in what notes are played an the EQ). That leaves a lot of room for his bass to fill up space in a way that modern musice doesn't often allow.

jte

JackCrockett · #5 11-07-2008, 09:35 PM

I'm actually considering picking up a pair of flatwounds... I had a feeling that's what he used. I never knew that he played with such high action, and especially did not know he only played with his index finger. I play alot of songs with just my index, but certainly need the middle finger way oftentimes. I have a P bass, but the action is SUPER low. Ive never been able to play with high action.

I tell you... Ive been listening to alot of Marvin, 4 Tops, Temps.. and his tone, style, and presence is so amazing... I dont want to duplicate (or try to, more like it), but learn as much as a I can, and incorporate it into my own style.

I know high action is out of the question for me, but are flats good strings? Ive never played them.

keyboardguy · #6 11-07-2008, 10:24 PM

Class is now in session:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCrO3iVWZE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KC7uhMY9s
( go to 1:25 into the clip to see the "hook" at work)

Mike

bongomania · #7 11-07-2008, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackCrockett

I'm actually considering picking up a pair of flatwounds.

I'd suggest starting with four of them- Jamerson was well known for his use of a four-stringed instrument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackCrockett

are flats good strings?

No, they are not. Jamerson didn't know what he was doing, and his tone should be avoided.

bassrique · #8 11-07-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

But a vital factor is the clear, uncluttered low end of the other stuff on Motown recordings. The guitars generally aren't playing big fat chords nor are they playing down on the fifth and sixth strings much. The kick drum isn't nearly as heavy as it is in post Led Zep recordings. The keys aren't bottom heavy either (both in what notes are played an the EQ). That leaves a lot of room for his bass to fill up space in a way that modern musice doesn't often allow.

jte

+1

Stumbo · #9 11-07-2008, 10:43 PM

New flat wounds will sound "bright" compared to Jamerson.
Just let them age naturally and don't clean them.

Flats for P

superfunk47 · #10 11-07-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

I'd suggest starting with four of them- Jamerson was well known for his use of a four-stringed instrument.

No, they are not. Jamerson didn't know what he was doing, and his tone should be avoided.

Now now. No need for sarcasm.

Jim Carr · #11 11-07-2008, 10:55 PM

Having a love for and deep interest in great musicians and their music is a quality I admire.

Please don't worry about what others might say. They perhaps have forgotten the joy found in the kind of discoveries you are making.

About you and your P-bass: IMHO trying to duplicate Jamerson's instrument and rig is not very productive, but understanding how and what he played is. Trust your ears as they better understand the interplay between fingers, strings, lines, and time that his work embodies. You will build bass lines that connect with his work, but in your own way. That is how it must be, and it should be. Enjoy your journey, there is so much to hear, play, and find. We are all "standing in the shadows of Motown." I, for one, am pleased to be there.

Joel D · #12 11-07-2008, 11:12 PM

Dr Jim is right -everyone on earth wants that tone -its chasing a gohst and if youi listen a lot old the motown stuff has a slight dirffrent bass tone from song to song and yes thats taking into account he talked berry gordy into a few upright bass recordings-and yes jamierson is known for not changing strings and the high action and the 1finger thing well he was taught on upright so explination for both-- back then any upright player t-o electric would want high action just for the trasition-as jim said study his lines -tone aside he was on the money-he held the bottom and the trick-- he did it musicaly

gahpg · #13 11-07-2008, 11:13 PM

+1 on what jim said.

Yep, high action; he tried to make his BG feel like his upright. If you want to get into Jamerson's style more, you definitely gotta look at jazz music, which was his love (along with the other funk brothers). He incorporates a lot of jazz elements in his playing (chromatic notes, enclosures, etc).

Definitely get the book if you haven't already. It's a book every bass player should have.

Keep in mind also that Jamerson didn't play on every Motown track, more so towards the end of his life. Bob Babbitt played on a few, so did Carol Kaye amongst others.

Here's some excellent lines for you if you haven't found them already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uF5UMxZSg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imsB543zqSM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pYux5-d1Es

What I don't get are the 16th notes with one finger; geez louise!

P-BASSLOVER · #14 11-08-2008, 07:52 AM

Heavy Guage Flats, Fender 1962 P-Bass, Fender Bassman 4X12 Tube amp, Finger Style Plucking with just the Index Finger, Cut Treble, Boosted Mids and Bass.

fenderhutz · #15 11-08-2008, 07:59 AM

I can't believe no one has mentioned alcohol yet. Lot's of alcohol.

JackCrockett · #16 11-08-2008, 08:45 AM

I guess whats so inspriring about Jamerson is that I can put in my Stevie Wonder cd... or a 4 Tops cd... a Temps or Marvin cd (I've got Motown cds galore), and it's the same dude playing all of those great basslines. I did know about Babbitt too from some of the Standing in the Shadows of Motown clips.

Thanks for all the input. Im definitely going to get busy. And Ive not aspriations of trying to "be" Jamerson, or copy his style. Like someone said earlier, I want to LEARN as much as I can so that it will influence my own playing in a positive, productive way. Ive been playing along with "Whats Going On", playing attention to the timing and the scale patterns he used.... great learning material all over the net. Thanks!