James Jamerson

[TheGreatSealof]

Did James Jamerson create his own bass lines for all the recordings he made or did he perform lines that were written by the artists he worked with/for?

[Jhengsman]

As I understand it Motown, where he did most of his work, didn't actually credit the Funk Brothers output. However in interviews it is said they worked off of Nashville charts. As the company moved to LA more and more the songwriters like Stevie Wonder wrote the basslines and LA studio pros got more work instead of the Funk Brothers from Detroit

[Youngspanion]

Most, not all, most of the time he built his bass lines off of chord charts. Sometimes a song writer would specify a bass line and some were very pushy about it too.

Get your hands on "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" by Dr. Licks. Great book about Jamerson, Motown and the Funk Brothers.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by TheGreatSealof

Did James Jamerson create his own bass lines for all the recordings he made or did he perform lines that were written by the artists he worked with/for?

Originally Posted by Youngspanion

Most, not all, most of the time he built his bass lines off of chord charts. Sometimes a song writer would specify a bass line and some were very pushy about it too.

Get your hands on "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" by Dr. Licks. Great book about Jamerson, Motown and the Funk Brothers.

What Youngs said...

Jamerson, no doubt, created Motown bass...after a few years, composers were able to begin writing figures in his vibe.
The SITSOM book does have a sample of a "composed" bass figure given to Jamerson.
When listening, you can hear Jamerson play the figure...but then he does many variations upon the written theme. No way would someone chart out every improvised variation.
That said, there are some tunes that are played very straight & to the script.

[JTE]

It varied, depending on the producer and the song. Sometimes lines were hummed to him, sometimes he just came up with the line on his own, sometimes he doubled what someone else was playing, and sometimes they started with a written part. But, he generally added his own stamp to everything, through embellishment, timing, phrasing, etc.

John

[TheGreatSealof]

Excellent feedback. I love his sound and lines. He is very difficult to play, in my opinion, because his fingering seems to just flow but I can't grasp how he played with the "hook" and produced such great bass lines. Sometimes walking and then at other times improvising with complex note combinations. Amazing!

[lowendfriend]

I find when I get a little stuck covering one of his lines, I play them with one finger on the right hand. Seems to help me find his sense of timing. once you "get it" you can go back to your normal right hand style.

[Katfish Krow]

Any truth to the story I read/heard about that he made up the bassline to Marvin Gayes "What going on" while completwly wasted and lying on his back?

Also I know Im new to the fourms so I hope this dosen't ignite a civil war/middle eastern style revolt but...what's with the controversy with him and Carol Kaye regarding Stevie Wonder's "I was made to love her" I've heard various stories but from what I gather, seems she origonally played it, but they removed her recording and used James one instead, preferring his style (she later played on the Beach Boys cover of it) still there are die harders who swear (literally) that she is the one on Stevie's recording, not him (you can clearly tell it's Jameson...) is there more to meets the eye on that or did I about cover it?

[Diplowmatt]

Originally Posted by Katfish Krow

Any truth to the story I read/heard about that he made up the bassline to Marvin Gayes "What going on" while completwly wasted and lying on his back?

Yep.

Also I know Im new to the fourms so I hope this dosen't ignite a civil war/middle eastern style revolt but...what's with the controversy with him and Carol Kaye regarding Stevie Wonder's "I was made to love her" I've heard various stories but from what I gather, seems she origonally played it, but they removed her recording and used James one instead, preferring his style (she later played on the Beach Boys cover of it) still there are die harders who swear (literally) that she is the one on Stevie's recording, not him (you can clearly tell it's Jameson...) is there more to meets the eye on that or did I about cover it?

To my understanding, she used a pick. Makes a completely different sound, and it sounds like it was fingerpicked. And it fits Jamersons playstyle. That's my story and I'm stickin to it.

And from what I've read/seen in interviews and such, jamerson didn't really need much of a lead. He kind of played on the fly.

[Clark Dark]

According to lore they would present James with a part to play and he would tell the producer "you telling me what to play "??? SITSOM also told of battles JJ had with Ashford and Simpson about playing something the way they wanted it played but JJ resisted and the finished product was better than what they wanted. Jamerson worked with some of the worlds greatest vocal groups in their prime and imparted each of them their own signature sound. Think about the lineups. The Four Tops got a laid back caribbean style while the Temptations always had a more aggressive style. Smokey had his style and Marvin was also given a signature style. Gladys Knight & the Pips, Martha Reeves, the Marvelettes, Jimmy Ruffin, Stevie, (upright bass playing on Shoo Be Do Be sings) the Supremes and even when Motown artists did the same song like Darling Dear (J5 & Smokey) JJ changed his parts up. Another example is "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" by Marvin & Tammy, then by Diana Ross. I haven't given all of the groups he played behind at Motown because I think you get the idea by now but his stature is based upon his total output with all the groups and single acts he worked with at Motown and away from Motown and his originality. I think he was/is unmatched in history. That thing about more number one hits than the Beachboys, Elvis, the Beatles, the Who and the Stones put together is substantiated.

[Hifiguy]

Originally Posted by Katfish Krow

Any truth to the story I read/heard about that he made up the bassline to Marvin Gayes "What going on" while completwly wasted and lying on his back?

It's true. The Funk Brothers put in long hours in the Motown studios and liked to sneak off for a few refreshments when the opportunity arose. Marvin found James, slightly the worse for wear, with a couple of the other guys in a nearby bar and dragged him back to the studio to record what became one of the all time bass tracks. And he played it flat on his back and quite inebriated.

[Katfish Krow]

Wish there was a "Thank You" button on these forums. Great reply's. I heard the story about the "what's going on " bassline before (even told a few other musicians about it who didn't know) but extra confirmation is always good. Also great info Clark. I know he was Motwon's main studio musician for XX amount of years and had over 30 No 1 hits...he is the pinnacle bass player to me as well. I wonder if his stolen Fender was ever found? That would be like a "National Treasure" style hunt eh?...

hummm...

*starts writing script, calls copyright office...*

I still don't understand the controversy with him and Carol Kaye though...there really shouldn't be one, it's obvious that it's him playing on Stevie's track. Yet if you go on Youtube to this day, you see a bunch of comments by people saying it was her (no matter how much I correct them and tell them it that she played on the Beach Boy's awful COVER of that song, not the Stevie original.) Hence the only thing I found in research (and not much research) was that the studio did want her to do the arranged bassline for it and that she may have done a very early recording of it on Stevie's, but it was replaced by Jame's more freestyle version.

[AlvarHanso]

Originally Posted by Katfish Krow

I still don't understand the controversy with him and Carol Kaye though...there really shouldn't be one, it's obvious that it's him playing on Stevie's track. Yet if you go on Youtube to this day, you see a bunch of comments by people saying it was her (no matter how much I correct them and tell them it that she played on the Beach Boy's awful COVER of that song, not the Stevie original.) Hence the only thing I found in research (and not much research) was that the studio did want her to do the arranged bassline for it and that she may have done a very early recording of it on Stevie's, but it was replaced by Jame's more freestyle version.

Simple: she's still alive and sticks to her claim that she played it. If she did play an early version, she's at least half-right, but I Was Made to Love Her is generally seen as the quintessential Jamerson line. Interesting that Standing in the Shadows doesn't even really bring it up in the movie.

Also, to the point about the #1s, The Who never had a #1, so you can take them off. Strange as that sounds, they peaked at #2 with I'm a Boy, and in the US peaked at #9 with I Can See For Miles. Surprising, huh?

[Katfish Krow]

Originally Posted by AlvarHanso

Simple: she's still alive and sticks to her claim that she played it. If she did play an early version, she's at least half-right, but I Was Made to Love Her is generally seen as the quintessential Jamerson line. Interesting that Standing in the Shadows doesn't even really bring it up in the movie.

Also, to the point about the #1s, The Who never had a #1, so you can take them off. Strange as that sounds, they peaked at #2 with I'm a Boy, and in the US peaked at #9 with I Can See For Miles. Surprising, huh?

Ah...I never knew she made a claim herself to play it, I always thought it was just other people claiming that for her. Now I gotta look that up as well....

Also my apologies, but what was that about The Who? Didn't remember mentioning them (however that was interesting info,was sure they had a #1 song somewhere..they had #1 Albums, Who's Next, in the UK at least)

[Katfish Krow]

So I dug a little further.....man AlvarHanso, you were right...went to her own personal webpage and she doesn't come right out and say "I Played it", but she says it in a roundabout way as you can get. Being still a newbie to the forum (and not 100% sure on some of the rules), I won't post the complete portion of the statement(s) she made about Motown and Jamerson but man, she even got a little bit nasty there saying how she "didn't die of drugs or booze, but lived a clean, honorable, professional life..." Here's a link to her "FAQ" anywhoo....kind of an interesting read, but you can gather that she REALLY likes herself....

The Official Carol Kaye Web Site

[SoCal1]

Very sad indeed that a fine bassist like Ms Kaye would become so delusional and mean spirited with these outlandish and false claims. Ms Kaye has laid claim to not just the part on IWMTLH and other classic Jamerson tracks like Bernadette and others. Fact is that Jamerson was doubling fellow Funk Brother Joe Messinas guitar line on IWMTLH and I can state for sure that Joe has never met Ms Kaye let alone performed on a session with her. Kays pick tone is clearly NOT the fingerstyle on ANY of those songs she has laid claim to. Once again...a shame she has sullied her legend with such outlandish claims and mean spirited references regarding the great James Jamerson.

[Katfish Krow]

Originally Posted by SoCal1

Very sad indeed that a fine bassist like Ms Kaye would become so delusional and mean spirited with these outlandish and false claims. Ms Kaye has laid claim to not just the part on IWMTLH and other classic Jamerson tracks like Bernadette and others. Fact is that Jamerson was doubling fellow Funk Brother Joe Messinas guitar line on IWMTLH and I can state for sure that Joe has never met Ms Kaye let alone performed on a session with her. Kays pick tone is clearly NOT the fingerstyle on ANY of those songs she has laid claim to. Once again...a shame she has sullied her legend with such outlandish claims and mean spirited references regarding the great James Jamerson.

Yea the Bernadette one really surprised me...I started doubting that she wrote any of her FAQ but it's pretty clear from the site (and I guess attitudes about it) that those words are coming from her directly...and that's terrible. The worse part is people actually believing her...

I should even apologize for bringing this up AGAIN it seems...found an old thread here about the very same thing...

Carol Kaye Controversey Solved?

[VanillaThundah]

Originally Posted by SoCal1

Very sad indeed that a fine bassist like Ms Kaye would become so delusional and mean spirited with these outlandish and false claims.

Yeah it's always sad to see someone go senile...


JK! But IMHO Jamerson comes off as the Bassist's Bassist, that was his instrument and he took ownership of it from the get-go. Kaye was a guitarist who played bass as well and seemed to get a lot more work on bass. Not saying she doesn't have her own merits, but I don't think it's even a comparison in many regards. Plus, Jamerson played with cooler artists

[Katfish Krow]

^ Very True

Back on the subject of just the man, was he strictly studio or did he play concert for Motown artist as well? Must have been a treat to see him live

[SoCal1]

Originally Posted by Katfish Krow

^ Very True

Back on the subject of just the man, was he strictly studio or did he play concert for Motown artist as well? Must have been a treat to see him live

Jamerson toured with Jackie Wilson early in his career. He even left Motown for a while to return to Wilson...but fortunately for the music world...he came back. Other than local club work, he never performed much in public during his Motown heyday...Berry G wanted it that way.

I must confess that I was at a local Detroit jazz spot one night in my youth, andb guitarist Dennis Coffey was asked to replace the regular combo for a night, and Dennis brought his friend Jamerson to play along with a drummer...Melvin Davis. I happened to meet Jamerson that night and it really was no major deal (little did I know). Anyways...short story long...Jamerson brought a cheap little recorder with him, placed it on the bandstand, and recorded an entire set. Dennis, Jamerson on upright, and a drummer freewheeling it. Jamerson gave the tape to Dennis and he kept it for years. The quality is obviously a bit questionable...but Dennis sent me a copy, and I even had an engineer cut it down for me with selected cuts...but I still have the original copy intact. I have been trying to figure out what could be done with it...but based on the questionable sonic quality...I'm not sure. Dennis put a small cut of it on the SITSOM tribute CD, but I have the entire set. Dennis sounds great, and Jamersons brilliance on a lot of obviously improvisational stuff further obviates his brilliance.