John Myung and John Myung in Dream Theater mixes

Leftybass12 · #1 05-06-2009, 07:35 AM

John Myung is an excellent bassist, but why has he stopped composing complex basslines?? If you listen to basslines from the albums When Dream and Day Unite - Awake, John Myung composed really complex basslines. Also, why has Myung's basslines seemed to have gotten lost in Dream Theater mixes ever since Scenes From a Memory??

Ric5 · #2 05-06-2009, 07:44 AM

John reminds me of Tony Levin. Botn John and Tony could use more attack and bite in their playing styles. In my opinion.

fullrangebass · #3 05-06-2009, 07:45 AM

I don't like his tone for most of the albums, but that's me. I feel that he gets lost in the dense mixes of the DT CDs. I'd love to hear him with a little more mid definition (highly subjective wishful thinking)

Stealth · #4 05-06-2009, 07:46 AM

Please do not QFT, but from what I recall from several interviews there's one big reason for it. Apparently, a few years back it was decided that bandmembers had to either produce the entire song (from the lyrics to the music) or produce nothing - which is why Myung got pretty much shut out of the procedure and there are no more songs like Lifting Shadows off a Dream or Trial of Tears.

rtav · #5 05-06-2009, 08:02 AM

We play some Dream Theater covers in our band (Ytse Jam, Metropolis), and I will be the first to say that John Myung is an incredible musician... he articulates every single note like it was the only one he had to play his whole life - which makes working up his material a lot easier than some other players who aren't as consistent as he is. He combines chording, tapping, blazing fast runs and knows when to lay back and just drive the (albeit highly accelerated) groove [I'm specifically thinking of the long F# guitar/key solo part of Metropolis).

Yeah, I agree - I don't always like his tone. I call it a "Nashville" bass sound, because it is sooooooooooo clean that it sounds directly recorded into the board... I like a little more growl, bite and personality to a bass guitar sound, otherwise, it just sounds sterile and "too pure" to me.

The comparison made earlier to Tony Levin is an apt one.

Still - an amazing player!

Mark Latimour · #6 05-06-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth

Please do not QFT, but from what I recall from several interviews there's one big reason for it. Apparently, a few years back it was decided that bandmembers had to either produce the entire song (from the lyrics to the music) or produce nothing - which is why Myung got pretty much shut out of the procedure and there are no more songs like Lifting Shadows off a Dream or Trial of Tears.

I think that's a slightly separate point, but it is true. Mike Portnoy said in an interview that John would often come in with ideas for a song (ie a melody and lyrics etc), but not a finished song and the rest of the band would "shop" it into a song. However, the band (i'm assuming Portnoy and Petrucci) decided that they were no longer interested in working up songs and wanted people who write to come in with basically finished works rather than just sketches. As a result, Myung hasn't been having his songs used. I suspect to that there isn't a lot of room for another "big" ego in that band with John P and Mike running the show fairly tightly. That said, it seems to work for them as a band and their new album is coming out soon so I don't think Myung is too hard done by.

Stealth · #7 05-06-2009, 09:29 AM

Depends on the POV, really - personally, most of my Myung-inspired playing (as he was the first professional bassist whose playing made me go "I have to start playing bass". His basslines were very much audible and very tasteful from 1987 (WDADU) till about 1999 (SFAM) - but the situation's even better if you were to listen to some of their old Demos from 1985 and 1986 (especially the unreleased mixes of, say, The Killing Hand or the Afterlife - the really complex ones where he's much more present in the mix).

agreatheight · #8 05-06-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

I think that's a slightly separate point, but it is true. Mike Portnoy said in an interview that John would often come in with ideas for a song (ie a melody and lyrics etc), but not a finished song and the rest of the band would "shop" it into a song. However, the band (i'm assuming Portnoy and Petrucci) decided that they were no longer interested in working up songs and wanted people who write to come in with basically finished works rather than just sketches. As a result, Myung hasn't been having his songs used.

And that is really too bad - Learning to Live is my favorite Dream Theater song and has Myung's influence all over it.

Mikio · #9 05-06-2009, 11:09 AM

the only Mix I don't like too much, as for bass, is the Images & Words

but overall, I love his sound, and his basslines are just fine [for me, lol]

PS: the Awake and the Train of Thought tone are my favs, I think... and I also love the new tone in Systematic Chaos, but I hate like 3 of the songs in the album.... that muse+tool+otherstuffthatIdon'tknow influences screwed Dream Theater up xP

TAOspeedwagon · #10 05-06-2009, 02:10 PM

i love myung, i love portnoy

i hate labrie

I do agree with most of you on how myung get shut off in the mix after SFAM

tmsteph · #11 05-06-2009, 02:27 PM

on the roadrunner website, it says for some super duper multi disk deal you get isolated tracks and an instrumental version of the album. that will fix the not being able to hear myung and completely get rid of labrie

artistanbul · #12 05-06-2009, 02:45 PM

tony levin lacks attack?
I don't think so
he is especially all attack in peter gabriel - so

patrickm · #13 05-06-2009, 03:01 PM

Maybe...and I mean just maybe,he no longer feels the need to throw every spice in the pot,when it comes to his basslines.
However,with regards to the mixes< I really do think that Portnoy and Petrucci need to stop produceing their albums. BTW, despite what I just said ,I can't wait for their new one to come out in June!

ROGI · #14 07-09-2009, 02:19 PM

ToT, images and words and Awake have IMO best bass sound. but its so darn had to hear him on latest albums...

Ian Perge · #15 07-10-2009, 05:07 AM

It's really hard to cut through a mix consisting of 20+ drums, 30+ cymbals, and multi-tracked Mesa-distorted downtuned guitars... especially when the people playing the above are also Producing the albums.

Haruni · #16 07-10-2009, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Perge

It's really hard to cut through a mix consisting of 20+ drums, 30+ cymbals, and multi-tracked Mesa-distorted downtuned guitars... especially when the people playing the above are also Producing the albums.

+1. Also, to me Myung has reached the playing style "less is more", like he's feeling comfortable doing complex things every once in a while rather than the whole song. It could be seen that way IMHO

jojobean39 · #17 07-10-2009, 07:26 AM

I hate his tone but I absolutely LOVE his playing. I really lost interest after Scenes From A Memory, partly for the fact that the bass was like a obligatory instrument. It was like they needed another instrument in there for when Petrucci and Portnoy solo. I like both of them, but they really seem like stage hogs. When I saw DT live it was pretty amazing. Myungs right arm looked like it had maggots in it when he was playing from his muscles. It was a pretty weird thing to see. He played so fast with his fingers his muscles in his forearm just went crazy. Talented guy.

**john turner** · #18 07-10-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

However, the band (i'm assuming Portnoy and Petrucci) decided that they were no longer interested in working up songs and wanted people who write to come in with basically finished works rather than just sketches. As a result, Myung hasn't been having his songs used. I suspect to that there isn't a lot of room for another "big" ego in that band with John P and Mike running the show fairly tightly.

and that's why they sound the same, over and over, ad nauseum. frankly, their laziness/unwillingness to collaborate with their own bandmembers is one of the biggest reasons why i don't have the time of day for them anymore.

way better musicians/songwriters than them have stowed their egos sufficiently to collaborate with their own bandmates. rush comes to mind quickly.

it's a shame too - they don't even realize how stale their music sounds. things off images and words sound -fresher- than their most recent stuff, at least to me, and that was twenty years ago.

Mark Latimour · #19 07-10-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john turner

and that's why they sound the same, over and over, ad nauseum. frankly, their laziness/unwillingness to collaborate with their own bandmembers is one of the biggest reasons why i don't have the time of day for them anymore.

way better musicians/songwriters than them have stowed their egos sufficiently to collaborate with their own bandmates. rush comes to mind quickly.

it's a shame too - they don't even realize how stale their music sounds. things off images and words sound -fresher- than their most recent stuff, at least to me, and that was twenty years ago.

+1

I think they would benefit greatly from an outside producer who was used to working with big egos. A Steven Wilson or even a (god forbid) Bob Rock for an album might make a world of difference. Falling into Infinity, whilst not one of their strongest efforts, really did sound "progressive" and I think a lot of that is down to Kevin Shirley's input.

LowEndDrew · #20 07-10-2009, 09:24 AM

I agree with most of the things posted here.
I have to say that Scenes has to be one of my favorite albums of any genre. It's just so freaking musical and epic. But the bass on the album is pretty pathetic. Myungs's barely in the mix, and has no low end on his bass at all. The kick pedal and Petrucci basically destroy him throughout the album except for the few times were they stop playing and let him do a 5 second line (that normally sounds pointless). As a bass player i am so frustrated by him because everyone else on this album is SO expressive in their playing and he just sounds like a zombie with a bass in his hands. I have to say that i especially like his fretless playing though on "through her eyes". Maybe they actually let him write his bass line

His tone is horrendous to my ears as well. It sounds like he's smacking his fingers on a trash can. "train of thought" actually is the only album with a good bass mix IMO, just because they actually mixed in the low end of the bass and it fills in that area of the sound that all the high freq instruments couldn't fill. It's where the bass should be! And you can hear him! Marvelous!

Summary: Awesome player (technique and speed), Bad tone, needs to write music with the band, Petrucci and Portnoy need a time-out. Their music definitely sounds like stuff produced by the drummer and guitarist. However they are very kind to rudess and labrie in the mix... just not the bassist. Who needs a bass player in metal? (which they have become... not progressive rock)