John Myung tone 1992-1995

chanson · #1 03-09-2009, 02:52 PM

I am extremely impressed with John Myung's tone on Dream Theater's albums from 1992 to 1995- Images & Words, Awake, and the A Change of Seasons EP. His tone on the live tracks of A Change of Seasons is amazing in my opinion. It's everything I like a bass tone to be- deep, clear, and with just a little bit of bite/growl. Now, the problem is how to replicate that tone. Obviously, I won't be able to get his tone exactly and yes, I know that the way he attacks the strings has a lot to do with it as well. But what I would like advice on is how to get a tone similar to his on the albums I mentioned with what I have- a (soon to be) Stingray 5 and a Spector Euro 4LX through a Fender Rumble 100 or going direct. I know he used a Spector NS-2 as well as a Tung 6 string during this era, but is there any advice you could give to help me get close to this amazing tone? I've been experimenting with different things for a while but can't seem to get as close as I'd like.

This is not one of those "I love this bassist, help me sound like him" threads. This is a "I heard this tone and love it, is there anything I can do to get close to that? I'm stumped" thread.

Mikio · #2 03-09-2009, 05:28 PM

well, the Images & Words tone sucks for me, but I LOVE the Awake+ACOS one!!!!!!

the advise I can give you is... mmm.. boost the neck pickup a little more than the bridge one [if you're able to]

perfektspace6 · #3 03-09-2009, 09:38 PM

Yeah that's a tough one and by the way, his Awake tone is one of the best I have ever heard. Wish he had stuck to it

His Awake tone is so smooth, deep, and clear. It doesn't sound overly bright to me but cuts very well. Maybe as the previous poster recommended boost the neck a bit and go for some low mids with a little treble boost. His tone on scarred is definitely coming from a neck pickup heavy sound. I think Bart humbuckers would help as well but who knows. Those Tung basses have a unique character and they aren't easily found.

chanson · #4 03-14-2009, 11:18 PM

Was he playing Mesa Boogie at this time?

marshmallow83 · #5 03-15-2009, 04:18 AM

I believe he was.

Mikio · #6 03-15-2009, 07:52 PM

forgot to mention, JM plays or at least used to play really hard on the strings, pluck them with strength!

chanson · #7 03-16-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikio

forgot to mention, JM plays or at least used to play really hard on the strings, pluck them with strength!

I noticed that when watched an older video where they are recording an album in the studio. Myung is playing unplugged and I hear lots of clank and noise. However, when I hear his tone, it sounds so clean! It doesn't seem to have the clank and clicks that I'd expect to hear from someone who plays so aggressively. What's the secret there?

TimWilson · #8 03-16-2009, 11:02 AM

Even as early as '92, Myung was already getting hot-rodded Mesa TriAxis pre's directly from the custom shop. You simply can't buy his rig off the shelf.

That said, do try to remember that a producer has as much to do with a musician's recorded sound—bassist, guitarist, drummist.. ANY "-ist"—as the musician themselves, if not more so. Producer Kevin Shirley could tell you a lot more about Myung's tone during that period that John himself could. NOT that John isn't VERY tone-conscious... He certainly IS... But the producer puts it all together is a way that makes people, well, write in to ask how a guy got that sound.

ROGI · #9 03-16-2009, 11:15 AM

he played tung custom basses on awake, used mesa heads (+400) and mesa cabs (4x10+1x15 cabs)...

Double Agent · #10 03-16-2009, 11:27 AM

That is my favorite era for Myung as well. His tone was very mid-heavy on I&W, but a lot smoother on Awake and ACOS. I liked the sound of all of them. I have to think he cuts a lot of treble, but boosts his midrange slightly to that his tone still cuts through, at least for the I&W tone. Of course, Spectors are very midrangey anyways, so maybe he didn't boost his mids at all because they are already so plentiful on that bass. Since you have a Euro LX, you will probably have an easier time with his I&W tone than the later tones. Also, he definitely favored the neck p/u on those early albums. I remember him stating that in an interview after recording Awake. That same article had several bass lines from Awake tabbed, so I remember it really well because I was just starting out on bass and I had a 6-string and I was a huge DT fan so I learned all the bass parts from that album.

As far as the Awake and ACOS albums, Bartolini humbuckers would be a start. Again, favoring the neck p/u, rolling off some highs, and maybe boosting the mids just a smidge. When I say mids, I mean mids; not low-mids or high mids, the very middle of the EQ. That's what I hear anyways, but there are probably guys here on TB more qualified to help you than me. Just wanted to throw my $0.02 in and mention that I am also a fan of Myung's tone from that era. I wish he would go back to playing Spectors, but I don't think that will ever happen now.

TimWilson · #11 03-16-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROGI

he played tung custom basses on awake, used mesa heads (+400) and mesa cabs (4x10+1x15 cabs)...

True on the Mesa gear, but not quite so on the Tung basses: Though he DID play a Tung "Wing" bass for "Awake" and some of "Seasons", John bought his first Tung bass off-the-shelf in one of the big New York shops (Manny's, I think). He never ordered, nor was offered, a custom model. He used a four-string Spector NS-2 for "Images & Words, and by the time the band finished "..Seasons, he'd already replaced the Tungs with Tobias basses.

Double Agent · #12 03-16-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimWilson

He used a four-string Spector NS-2 for "Images & Words, and by the time the band finished "..Seasons, he'd already replaced the Tungs with Tobias basses.

Actually, I believe it was the other way around. He played the Spector on I&W, but on the tour for I&W he was playing a Tobias 6er. I believe Take the Time, from I&W, was actually cut on the Tobias since it features him riding the low C# pretty heavily for the whole song. On the Live at the Marquee video, which was recorded on the I&W tour, he played a Tobias. But, then he recorded the Awake and ACOS albums with the Tung basses. After ACOS, he switched to his Yamaha sig bass, which was a big step down from all the basses he had previously used IMO. This was the point where the bass tone really starting to get disappointing from him IMO. It was better of Systematic Chaos, but still not as good as it used to be.

All this info is IIRC, but I started out as a nerdy 16-year-old guitard who thought John Petrucci was the end-all, be-all guitarist to emulate.

I switched to bass while I was headlong in this band-crush, so I was paying pretty close attention. Such a nerd.

TimWilson · #13 03-16-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Agent

Actually, I believe it was the other way around. He played the Spector on I&W, but on the tour for I&W he was playing a Tobias 6er. I believe Take the Time, from I&W, was actually cut on the Tobias since it features him riding the low C# pretty heavily for the whole song. On the Live at the Marquee video, which was recorded on the I&W tour, he played a Tobias. But, then he recorded the Awake and ACOS albums with the Tung basses. After ACOS, he switched to his Yamaha sig bass, which was a big step down from all the basses he had previously used IMO. This was the point where the bass tone really starting to get disappointing from him IMO. It was better of Systematic Chaos, but still not as good as it used to be.

You know, you ARE right: Now that I think of it, that I&W concert vid was the red Tobias, beginning to end. I'm recalling an old Guitar World interview (I could dig it up at home later) wherein JM said that he first discovered six-string basses when he found a Tung on the wall at Manny's, but he must have saved it until later, or maybe not bought it until later, because he WAS seen with the Tobias first. In a Japanese concert video I have from Awake, he plays the Tung all night and it's REALLy up-front in the mix! Awesome sound.

You're dead-on, too, about his tone declining ever since switching to Yamahas, then to MMs. I WISH he' go back to the Tung.

Disappear · #14 03-16-2009, 04:28 PM

Matter of opinion right? I love his grittier tone now-a-days. Don't forget his pre-amps and stuff. I found the article of what he was using around the time of octavarium on an online Bass Player magazine by hitting it through google...

Double Agent · #15 03-16-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disappear

Matter of opinion right?

Most everything discussed on TB is a matter of opinion. You certainly have a right to your own. Even though I have strong opinions sometimes (I think all musicians do), I certainly respect the right of others to disagree.

For me, its not just about Myung and his tone, I feel DT has really lost their way and it started after ACOS. So, maybe its the quality of the material that disappoints me more than his tone. But it seems to me that Myung started to become less and less audible in the mix every consecutive album after ACOS until Systematic Chaos. Even though he is very audible in the mix again, I preferred his tone back in the old days.

BTW, I just got an e-mail this morning saying there is a new album due out very soon (Black Clouds & Silver Linings). So we will have new material to debate about soon enough. Even though my enthusiasm for the band has waned over the last several years, I still look forward to each release. Their new stuff just doesn't hit me in the same way, but I still enjoy it.

Disappear · #16 03-16-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Agent

For me, its not just about Myung and his tone, I feel DT has really lost their way and it started after ACOS. So, maybe its the quality of the material that disappoints me more than his tone. But it seems to me that Myung started to become less and less audible in the mix every consecutive album after ACOS until Systematic Chaos. Even though he is very audible in the mix again, I preferred his tone back in the old days.

I agree. Then again, in the recording studios, they were all arguing about "make my track louder". Then after ACOS, Portnoy and Petrucci basically took the band by the balls and said our way or the high way. Myung really isn't the guy you'd expect to stand up and yell at people though right? It really is a guitar and drum oriented band with other people. Having said that, I still love them. If I have to listen harder for Myung, I'll do it. Though he had a spotlight moment in SFAM in dance of eternity, eh?

Quote:

BTW, I just got an e-mail this morning saying there is a new album due out very soon (Black Clouds & Silver Linings). So we will have new material to debate about soon enough. Even though my enthusiasm for the band has waned over the last several years, I still look forward to each release. Their new stuff just doesn't hit me in the same way, but I still enjoy it.

I noticed that on Portnoy's website. They're releasing the album on vinyl! Three CD set including the songs, the instrumentals of the songs and I think another making of? As well as lots of album art from what I hear. I'm looking forward to it.

I started to get into Levin through DT's side projects. I like him.

Mikio · #17 03-16-2009, 08:54 PM

yes, he used a Tobias after finishing I&W [recorded with 4 strings], and then when Tung made his own basses he used those for both Awake and ACOS, and THEN he switched to Yamaha

so the tone you're looking for is Tung+Mesa+playinghardonthestrings+neckpickup xD

Disappear · #18 03-17-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikio

so the tone you're looking for is Tung+Mesa+playinghardonthestrings+neckpickup xD

Heh...

Mikio · #19 03-17-2009, 11:10 AM

well, that's an interesting approach, my friend xDDDDD

WRXbase · #20 03-23-2009, 03:31 PM

His tone since he started playing that 9 ton Yamaha is gross. I'll admit, like some other famous/infamous players, lots of his tone is prolly due to those mostrously large hands. His hand strength also, not need be mentioned. But his live and album tone? Too grindy. Gets buried under Jordan and John too easily.