Joni on Jaco: For Discussion

[matthewbrown]

From This is Your Brain on Music, by Daniel J. Levitin
Joni Mitchell:"...then the musicians came in and they all had ideas about how they wanted to play. On my record! The worst were the bass players because they always wanted to know what the root of the chord was...But I said, 'Just play something that sounds good, don't worry about what the root is.' And they said, 'We can't do that -- we have to play the root or it won't sound right.'"

Daniel Levitin: "All of the bass players Joni worked with before Jaco insisted on playing roots, or what they perceived to be roots. The brilliance of Jaco, Joni said, is that he instinctively knew to wander around the possibility space, reinforcing the different chord interpretations with equal emphasis, sublimely holding the ambiguity in a delicate, suspended balance."

Thoughts?

[Barkless Dog]

Certainly my favorite Jaco period.

[Eublet]

I definitely think Jaco's work with Joni was some of his best, along with Bright Sized Life.

[JimK]

Hmmmm...I think I have a late '80s(?) edition of Musician magazine with a whole feature/interview of Joni on Jaco.
I'll have to dig although I do recall the thing about Jaco not playing the roots (IIRC, Joni was told this guy plays everything but the Root note).
There's also a mention of Jaco not digging Don Alias on drums...but Joni liked Alias' feel on the kit, etc.

[lambro]

I have that book, a non-musician gave it to me.

The basics are very boring and I couldn't get through those parts quick enough, however there are some very astute explanations of what goes on in a musicians head, much of this we feel inherently as musicians but usually never put it down in writing or even attempt to come up with words that describe what happens inside, for that, there are many "ah-ha" moments.

As for Joni's statement I think she said it perfectly.

However if Miroslav or Alphonso played on her mid 70's works instead of Jaco, I think you would also find those qualities from them as well.

Jaco was certainly in full form then and there was great chemistry with him and Joni, but part of it is also the jazz mentality, which brings variation, listening and space.

[JTE]

Well Joni's talked several times in different interviews about her frustrations of using essentailly rock oriented players to help craft her visions. Tom Scott once said he was working out something and aksed her if it was something like a D13b7b9. She replied "Tom, ignorance is bliss". He said he took it as liberating to be able to just play, but others weren't so open.

And others had told her to use jazz players, but so many of them at the time weren't interested in working with anyone from anything approaching "rock", let alone her folk roots. Finding Jaco et. al. who had the jazz ears and chops as well as the rock, funk, and R'n'B bass too made the music open up.

My favorite Jaco performances are the ones with Joni, too.
jte

[JimK]

Originally Posted by lambro

However if Miroslav or Alphonso played on her mid 70's works instead of Jaco, I think you would also find those qualities from them as well.

In the liner notes to Mingus, there is mention/listing of others that were used: Stanley Clarke, Eddie Gomez, John McLaughlin, Tony Williams, Phil Woods, etc.
I would like to think those takes will somehow see the light of day eventually.

[tZer]

"Coyote" will always be one of my favorite Joni/Jaco tunes.

On the topic of "what's the root?" - I've been playing with a "naive" guitar player for many years now who really didn't grasp the concept of chord names and their relevance to reality. He has a variety of guitars, some of which are tuned down one full step. He had the hardest time understanding why I would look at him funny when I'd ask him what chord he was playing and he'd answer based on the chord shape he was playing - regardless of the instrument.

So for him, because his fingers where making the shape of a "C maj." chord, he must be playing a C major chord - even if the guitar was tuned down a full step...

"Dude - that is NOT a C! Listen to what your playing..."

"But look at where my hand is... isn't that a C chord?"

oy...

I gave up a long time ago asking for chord names and have happily navigated through our songs with my ears. More often than not the part I'd come up with would be far more interesting that if I based it on knowing what chords he was playing.


On the flip-side of that - I also jam with many chord-savvy musicians and also enjoy creating parts by knowing the chord progression in advance.

It's just a couple of different ways to approach bass line creation. One gives you some known quantities so you can choose interesting notes from a position of knowing - the other is more ambiguous, but opens up the possibility of using notes you might not have chosen otherwise.

Joni rules, by the way.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by JTE

And others had told her to use jazz players, but so many of them at the time weren't interested in working with anyone from anything approaching "rock", let alone her folk roots. Finding Jaco et. al. who had the jazz ears and chops as well as the rock, funk, and R'n'B bass too made the music open up.

The live album(Miles Of Aisles) with Tom Scott & The L.A. Express is pretty good...Max Bennett is certainly worthy.
IIRC, she also used Wilton Felder of The Crusaders on EB.

[Mojo-Man]

Jaco with Joni, are some of my favorite Jaco.

Got to see the Shadows And Light Tour.

Joni let Jaco do what ever he wanted. ( He shined)

I believe he was musical director?

[JTE]

While I agree that Max Bennet and Wilton Felder are great (I love the bass stuff on "Miles of Aisles", "Court and Spark", etc. and I got to see her with the LA Express when Robben Ford had just taken Carlton's spot), according to Joni there were still some issues with getting people to just play the sounds. I suspect it may have been an aspect of using studio players who were more accustomed to having more direction.

jte

[bassbrad]

Joni approaches lyrics & music as creative and expressive art, not as some form that follows or conforms to rules and forms. My impression on this is that Jaco was the 1st bassist she encountered that understood that her music was art and he had the talent to approached his bass parts as such.
As bass players we often get so caught up in providing the foundation for music we forget the expressive freedom to play more than a standard rhythm and root tones.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I agree that it was a magical relationship and have all the CDs and DVDs they did together! And play them often..

As to the original point - I imagine that most session bass players had been beaten into submission - i.e. you will only play roots!!

(see the Bruce Thomas thread where there is a story about how he did a few sessions for the Pretenders and Crissie Hynde was horrified at his expressiveness and told him not to play above the first 2 dots - i.e. nothing above 5th fret!!)

Whereas Jaco had the confidence (some say arrogance) to play whatever he thought sounded good!

[Marcury]

Hejira brings tears to my eyes every time I listen to it. The combination of Joni's open tunings and Jaco's open concept is so beautifully musical. I love all the music they did together, but Hejira is one of my favorite albums of all time.

[Jaco D]

Yeah, I sometimes wish there were more Jaco and Joni collaborations than what we have now. Throw in the usual gang of suspects like Lyle Mays, Pat Metheny, etc. and you couldn't ask for anything more. I read somewhere that Jaco's dark years were beginning to take shape around this time, and Metheny had to step in at times as musical director when Jaco was in no position to assume that role. Nevertheless, whatever limited Jaco-n-Joni stuff out there is one heck of a collaboration.

[Mark Wilson]

Jaco...
He's the man.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Marcury

Hejira brings tears to my eyes every time I listen to it. The combination of Joni's open tunings and Jaco's open concept is so beautifully musical. I love all the music they did together, but Hejira is one of my favorite albums of all time.

Same here. Jaco kind of disappears into the music in a sense, which is what makes it so good. He's carrying a large part of the rhythm and harmony, but it's very much in a non-selfish way. It's amazing when you focus on what he's doing, but gets even more emotional when you take it all in as a whole.

[DocBop]

Joni is an Artist in every sense and wants the same around her. In recent interviews she complains about how much record companies controlled what music they wanted from her and would release. Ashame that it drove her away from music for awhile.

Back in my guitar days my guitar repairman also worked on Joni's guitars. He'd let me play some of her guitars with unique tunings. After playing those guitars I can fully understand why she wanted a bass player to explore and find the right sound to support them.

[Eric Perry]

Originally Posted by tZer

"Coyote" will always be one of my favorite Joni/Jaco tunes.

Originally Posted by Marcury

Hejira brings tears to my eyes every time I listen to it. The combination of Joni's open tunings and Jaco's open concept is so beautifully musical. I love all the music they did together, but Hejira is one of my favorite albums of all time.

Agreed on all counts. The harmonics on Coyote just scream. I love that song!

[Marcus Johnson]

I can remember where I was when I first heard that album... I could fly to Vancouver Island, drive to a house in Campbell River, and point out the space in the living room where I spun it the first time and listened to it twice in a row. That to me is the sign of a great album, remembering it in detail like that, and I listened to it many, many times afterwards. I guess it was maybe my first exposure to Jaco. I remember being equally blown away by Joni's open tuned guitar sound an that album.

Haven't heard it in years. I know I bought the next one, that Don Juan double album, and really dug the first tune, "Cotton Avenue". That was when Joni started using the lower end of her range, which is really happening. I guess all those years of smoking finally kicked in.