Kind of tired of Carol Kaye

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by BassLand

Regarding Babbitts take on this issue, He and Jamerson recorded for the same company (albeit for only 2 years 1968-9) and Babbitt worked for a lot of other Detroit companies but they were at least in the same town so there is some room for confusion over who recorded cool jerk. They were in that same town, they may have re-recorded each other's parts for sure or remember the song and not the specific arrangement but the above story in no way substantiates CK's claims and there are none of her cohorts that have named songs which makes her claims believable either.

The small number tunes in question contrasted with Carol Kaye's vast body of work in conjunction with Babbit's comments to me makes here claims plausible though what she may have played is not what wound up on the record.

It's not a big deal anyway.

[JTE]

What she said in her most recent BP article was that women bassists shouldn't think of themselves as "women-bassists", but as bassists. Get rid of the hyphen, and don't think of themselves as a sub-class of bassists. We don't talk about "men-bassists" so why talk about "women-bassists"?

jte

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by JTE

What she said in her most recent BP article was that women bassists shouldn't think of themselves as "women-bassists", but as bassists. Get rid of the hyphen, and don't think of themselves as a sub-class of bassists. We don't talk about "men-bassists" so why talk about "women-bassists"?

jte

I think that's a very valid point to make.

[froglips]

Originally Posted by JTE

What she said in her most recent BP article was that women bassists shouldn't think of themselves as "women-bassists", but as bassists. Get rid of the hyphen, and don't think of themselves as a sub-class of bassists. We don't talk about "men-bassists" so why talk about "women-bassists"?
jte

Typical womens lib woman not understanding what the phrase "Women Bassist" even means, but feels putting a bad label on it without knowing what it means first is doing the movement some sort of justice.

"Women Bassist" is not a slur, or incenuating that a female bassist is in any way less of a bass player than a male bass player just because she is female. It is just distinguishing between the two genders, mostly because there are not many known female bass players. Most people can not even name one.
... And to a lesser degree, so us men bass players (Which is the majority of bass players out there in the world after all) know that they are female so we can take a second look to also judge them on looks as well as bass playing ability. We are men after all!

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by froglips

Typical womens lib woman not understanding what the phrase "Women Bassist" even means, but feels putting a bad label on it without knowing what it means first is doing the movement some sort of justice.

"Women Bassist" is not a slur, or incenuating that a female bassist is in any way less of a bass player than a male bass player just because she is female. It is just distinguishing between the two genders, mostly because there are not many known female bass players. Most people can not even name one.
... And to a lesser degree, so us men bass players (Which is the majority of bass players out there in the world after all) know that they are female so we can take a second look to also judge them on looks as well as bass playing ability. We are men after all!

I think it is not so much about knowing what a word means but rather about questioning the need for it.
Why not just say bassist?
I personally couldn't care less , but if someone seems to take offense, when called "woman" bassist why not just call them "bassist".

BTW I don't know many bassists that need to be told that a certain bassist is female to notice it when they see one.

[Rob W]

Originally Posted by DWBass

I don't hear anyone emulating any of Carol Kaye's work. I hear 'everyone', in some way or form, emoting the spirit of James Jamerson!

Nuff said!

Umm, speak for yourself. I'm very much inspired by her sound and approach. Always have been. I've been known to get compliments on my warmth of tone AND clarity. I owe much of that concept of sound to Carol.

[Mr. Mig]

She is a really good player and has done alot for bass. She is older now and I think her mind is a little rusted. I don't say that to be mean, but it is an observation of mine.

[BigOldHarry]

If one is tired of a writer or musician, one need only pay them no mind. What good does griping do?

[moucon]

I just caught this after reading some Wikipedia stuff on CK and checking out her forum. I totally agree. For one thing though - she's an anachronism (stuck in time). She is extremely opinionated about nuances of technique that are really (sadly)no longer relevant .

She's now 77-78 yrs old and frankly comes off as the grumpy old neighbor who won't give the kids' ball back to them. Nobody can dispute her body of recorded work, but that said - it's all very dated sounding, obviously from the 60s and 70s. And for the most part very simplistic (although she is very accomplished in jazz pedagogy/theory). If you were re-recording those hits today, would you be going for the same thing? Probably not.

Sorry to say this Carol - you've been one of my heros over the years, but the truth of the matter is...

- Few pro players exclusively use a pick today
- Few pro players exclusively use flatwound strings today
- Buying a new bass every 2 yrs instead of changing the strings... seriously?
- Rant against the low B string? Low B taking over the band..huh? I'd rather have it there ready than constantly have to de-tune.

- Taping felt to the bridge as a mute? Really ? I guess this is no worse than guitar "shredders" using a scrunchy hair tie on the neck - but that's another style of playing that will soon be locked in time.

Now - all that said, I can definitely get behind her push for precision and accuracy in playing as a session player where time is money. If I was recording a cat food commercial I'd use a pick too. It's a way to be extremely clean and controlled -- in and out in one take. Friskies is not looking for the next Jaco Pastorius... they're looking for 30 seconds of simple PERFECT unadorned playing. Probably today that gig would go to a sequencer not a live bass player. I also 'get' her rants against needing compression and extra EQ. Those things add time and cost to a session - if you can get in there and nail it with NO extraneous noises, clicks, pops, whatever - that's going to be better for the engineer and producer. Her style of playing pretty much perfectly lays down that kind of solid, unadorned (and sometimes too mechanical) sound.

But she needs to lighten up and acknowledge there are some players who have taken the art to a completely different place today. Everything evolves.
-Moo

[mpdd]

it's pretty cool that she likes to talk so much trash and that she isn't some fake enthusiasm plastic industry wanker imo, mostly know who she is from the endless harmony and smile live videos

maybe she could work with noel or liam gallagher, they are pretty receptive to 60s stuff as an influence

[HOOLIGAN]

As I fan of classic TV shows and movies, my ear always picks up the bass playing on the soundtrack when its Carol-
I never get tired of hearing her playing & tone

[slapfunk987]

My God... Who cares who played the bassline, just shutup and play the notes...

Oh and by the way.... MARCUS MILLER FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!!

[corinpills]

Originally Posted by tycobb73

Never heard of her till this thread.

Maybe not, but you have heard her playing thousands of times in your life- unless you've never listened to the radio or gone to a supermarket.

[hernameisrio]

Tired of Carol Kaye?? Friend her on Facebook and I promise you you'll gain a new appreciation...her stories and tips are invaluable!

[DiabolusInMusic]

The posts are time stamped for a reason...

[hernameisrio]

Doh! This is what I get for reading it on my phone...anyway, even if the OP can't be talked down, everyone else should still give CK a chance...even if she's not your style, you gotta respect her for her work!

[leegreenman]

Yes, she's opinionated but she has the right to be! I've spoken with her via her website several times and she was never anything less than charming to me.

[Muziekschuur]

She is a sweetheart..... But she protects her own.... RESPECT....

[AltGrendel]

Originally Posted by stpvoodoo1

Eh...I think Carol Kaye has done enough good work to excuse her traditionalism.

Yea, but that doesn't mean folks have to kowtow to her every word.

[leegreenman]

Originally Posted by Muziekschuur

She is a sweetheart..... But she protects her own.... RESPECT....

I don't dare challenge her on anything though. Why would I though? Look at what she's accomplished!