Mental switch from Guitar to Bass

jkkkjkhk · #1 01-07-2011, 11:41 AM

Hi, I've been a guitarist for about 10 years now. I've played bass part time for about 6 as well. My band has needed a bass player forever and they asked if I would seeing that guitarists are easier to come by. They said I'm the best bassist they've ever heard and the want the best for everything (of course, who wouldn't).
Now my problem is, I've always dreamed of being a guitarist. Listening to James Hetfield's rhythms, Randy Rhoads' leads, and Dime's leads just drive me crazy. The look of a guitar how proportional it is to me and itself, and the many different looks and how most just don't fit a bass. Now bass is fun to me, jamming along with Rime of the Ancient Mariner or Seek and Destroy gets me really pumped, but the problem is I guess a mental/ego thing. I look at bassist and see how most are in the back (not literally) are aren't really noticed. I know guys like Cliff, Lemmy and all them jump around and are heard but still do you see Guitar World lessons of most bass parts like you do guitar?
I've played many basses, I just sold my Aria Pro II SB Elite, but most just don't do it for me. I'm what you would call a guitarist playing bass. I have no clue what a good bass sound is and to my ears I've never heard a good one I go crazy for.

How do/did some of you guys take the mental switch to bass? I know I'm overreacting but to me it's like giving up guitar for bass instead of just switching.
Thanks for any help

TheVoiceless · #2 01-07-2011, 11:57 AM

Well, part of being a bass player is leaving your ego behind. While you can still shred and go nuts as a bass player, most of the time your role is support. Like a lineman in Football. Your important to the team, but only real football ( music in the case of bass players ) fans will give you credit. Not always the case, like you mentioned above, but most bands don't need a Les Claypool or Lemmy type player.

You will need to learn to play with the drummer. Most of your notes should be locked with the drummers kick. I would even suggest just playing quarter notes along with your drummers kick until you can match his hits.

If you stick with it I think you will start to see the beauty in the bass. And how important it is to music. Bass is more about feel, timing, and being perfect. Its sad, and somewhat true " the only time they notice the bass player is when he is messing up, or some one pulls his plug out."

Good luck!!

bound'n'blocked · #3 01-07-2011, 06:26 PM

I was in the same situation as you. I had played guitar in bands for about 15 years, and played bass in maybe 3 or 4 gigs in the past but not enough to qualify as a bass player (I always told people that I was a bass owner, not a bass player). Our bass player quit and our guitar player is phenomenal so I told him if we couldnt find another bass player by a certain date before a gig I would do it. I realized that I LOVED playing bass. I never was much of a lead player, just some trade off licks and harmony stuff with the other guy, and always approached learning the rhythm for songs by listening to the bass line, so it really was an easy switch to me. I still own about 10 guitars but rarely if ever play any of them. Actually, playing a guitar after playing a bass for about 3 years feels really strange. The different scale and the size of the instruments makes it uncomfortable for me.

Personally, I'll mess around with guitar some, but in a band environment, I'll probably never go back to guitar. I feel that the bass is what I should have always been playing.

BnB

Willem · #4 01-07-2011, 07:01 PM

Man, you're me 6 years ago. Metalhead in a band with too many guitarists and no bassist. Friends saying you rule on bass, but no heroes on bass and many on guitar.
The difference it seems is that I was in another band playing guitar, which I later quit, and I always found myself a crappy guitarist, which I was.
It took me several years to become a real bassist instead of a guy who plays a bass in a band. Only, that's something I only later realised.
Looking back, what did it for me, getting in the bassist mindset, was playing with my fingers. When I made the switch I was playing bass already exclusively for over a year. But soon after that I felt it: I was becoming a true bassist.
When playing with a pick I was still too much in the guitarist mindset. Only with a bass in my hands.
I think there may lie a chance for you, keep the pick for guitar playing, which you clearly aren't going to quit, and play the bass with your fingers. This way it will feel like vastly different instruments, which they are, each with their own role in a band.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying playing a pick on bass is wrong. Just in this particular case, it seems like a good way to differentiate between the instruments and their role in music.

Another good tip, if you commit to the bass in the band, find a guitarist who is way better than you on guitar. Then you won't feel the urge to do it yourself while playing together.

I hope you find your way. I did. And I'll never go back to guitar.

delta7fred · #5 01-07-2011, 07:26 PM

I started on bass then after several years switched to lead when I was offered the gig, it had always been a dream of mine to play lead. I played lead for 12 years until the bass player (who offered me the lead job) didn't turn up one night and I have been back on bass ever since. I don't miss playing lead one bit. I think I must have got it out of my system.

As for being at the back well get to the front. Get singing and get your mic stand in line with the singers. Move about a bit, look like you are enjoying it and don't just stand there concentrating on playing, concentrate on entertaining the crowd, most of them don't know or care how good or bad a bassist you are. (But be as good as you can of course)

I would disagree to a certain extent with leaving your ego behind when you play bass. You are the best bass player on the stage, there may be better than you in the room but they are not playing so you they don't count. You are allowed to have a certain amount of ego just for being in the band. It's all in the mind.

Well my opinions anyway, YMMV.

BigOldHarry · #6 01-07-2011, 07:33 PM

Of course, you have to find the right bass for mental...

Chrisk-K · #7 01-07-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Now bass is fun to me, jamming along with Rime of the Ancient Mariner or Seek and Destroy gets me really pumped, but the problem is I guess a mental/ego thing.

Have you checked out a video of Maiden playing "Rime" at the "Live after Death" tour? Steve is all over the stage whereas his two guitarists are busy focusing on their guitar parts.

The key is if you play bass-dominant music, you'll draw all the attention. If you can sing and play at the same time, that's even better.

sonic assassin · #8 01-08-2011, 01:03 AM

i cant speak for everyone, but i was this way for a couple months. then i really GOT the bass after about 4 years of heavy guitar immersion.

my brain just switches over. 6 strings. 5 strings. small. big. chords. notes. instant change.

jkkkjkhk · #9 01-08-2011, 08:57 PM

Thanks everyone for the comments. I guess one thing that's bugged me is all the different tones on guitar I love and (it seems) the few different bass tones there are. I've always played with my fingers (pick only for Newsted parts) and Cliff and Steve are my two gods. Pulling Teeth was actually pretty easy for me to pick up, and steve's galloping is natural. I've always been told that I'm ****ing crazy on bass so that's good. I do feel like I'm more and the level of the other musicians when I play bass. The other two guitarists have ****ing hetfield right arms and can shred like Jeff Loomis, me I'm more of like a Randy guy. I like to play fast stuff but more melodic and I hate legato stuff.
Anyways back to bass. I'm only 5'6" and 120 lbs so a J bass is huge on me. If I had a custom bass that was a guitar body, guitar scale (maybe a little longer), proportional neck (be it guitar or bass), and bass strings would it be to floppy and bright sounding? I can play normal long scale it's just not as comfy.
I know when I started guitar there weren't all these ideas I had for custom guitars and I didn't know **** about tone, so I know that stuff will come to me. As of now I play whatever bass is in my hands, I don't feel much of a difference and if I had millions of dollars for a custom I'd be lost. Neck shape, pickups, body wood, all that is foreign language on bass to me.
Now if I occasionally used effects like dist, wah, or really anything do you think I'd instanly be a Cliff wannabe? I don't like just playing clean all the time but I don't want to be viewed as a Cliff copy.

Thanks again

jkkkjkhk · #10 01-08-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisk-K

Have you checked out a video of Maiden playing "Rime" at the "Live after Death" tour? Steve is all over the stage whereas his two guitarists are busy focusing on their guitar parts.

The key is if you play bass-dominant music, you'll draw all the attention. If you can sing and play at the same time, that's even better.

The band wants me to really be active with my bass parts and to have people worship me just like Cliff and Steve, so it's nice that they want that stuff. Basically play whatever I want, I'm not a beginner so they trust me to make it sound good. I don't know if I can sing though, for 21 years always been too scared.

jkkkjkhk · #11 01-08-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willem

Another good tip, if you commit to the bass in the band, find a guitarist who is way better than you on guitar. Then you won't feel the urge to do it yourself while playing together.

I hope you find your way. I did. And I'll never go back to guitar.

Thank god they kick my ass on guitar. I just still feel like I should be a guitarist. Hopefully that will go away.
One big fear I have is that I'll stop playing guitar again. All last year I practiced bass just so I could try out in any position I could find (I played drums too). I sadly stopped guitar for most of that year. Took me a few weeks to get back into it again but I'm now further than I was when I stopped.
I know, just don't stop, but if I'm full time bass then how will I manage to be a guitarist at home?

DerPrinz · #12 01-08-2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkkkjkhk

.
Anyways back to bass. I'm only 5'6" and 120 lbs so a J bass is huge on me. If I had a custom bass that was a guitar body, guitar scale (maybe a little longer), proportional neck (be it guitar or bass), and bass strings would it be to floppy and bright sounding? I can play normal long scale it's just not as comfy.

Thanks again

I'm around 5'6'' and 120 lbs, my J bass feels fine to me, it's not your body size, it's that you are used to playing guitar.

jkkkjkhk · #13 01-08-2011, 09:40 PM

right, but it doesn't feel big to you still? the thing's almost as tall as us.
Next problem is what bass to get. I'm thinking either a J or P bass, I've played them and wasn't turned off instantly like 90% of basses I play. I actually played an Alembic Spoiler and put it right back down. Felt and sounded identical to my Aria. If I'm correct the Aria was modeled after the Alembic but to me the Aria looks better and **** loads cheaper.

What about amps, I used to have a Acoustic bass stack, just got rid of a Tech 21 bass driver, now the eleven rack. No bass models but hopefully soon. As for a tone, I'm thinking the clarity of Jason Newsteds tone but the power of say Rex Browns later on towards FBD and TGSTK. Cliff's tone is way too muddy to me and Steve's is kinda plain. Works great for Maiden just not really for thrash imo.

sbass traveller · #14 01-08-2011, 09:46 PM

I think many of us have similar stories to share. I stopped trying play like Randy Rhodes, making the switch from "I'm a guitar player who also plays bass" to "yeah, I'm a bassist" when I wanted to play and bands are almost ALWAYS looking for a good bass player (or any bass player in a lot of cases). Congratulations, you've just taken the first step into becoming a valuable asset to any band.

As a side note, don't stop playing guitar though. Use it to help write material for the band and maybe the other guitarists can sit down with you from time to time to work on stuff or just jam. But be sure to keep it in check, if you're serious about covering the bass duties, you're gonna have to practice that. Play with fuzz, wah, or whatever effects you want and don't worry about sounding like a Cliff clone. You'll develop your own sound, style and tone by practicing and learning. Start with what you like AND can afford, and make it work.

jkkkjkhk · #15 01-08-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbass traveller

I think many of us have similar stories to share. I stopped trying play like Randy Rhodes, making the switch from "I'm a guitar player who also plays bass" to "yeah, I'm a bassist" when I wanted to play and bands are almost ALWAYS looking for a good bass player (or any bass player in a lot of cases). Congratulations, you've just taken the first step into becoming a valuable asset to any band.

As a side note, don't stop playing guitar though. Use it to help write material for the band and maybe the other guitarists can sit down with you from time to time to work on stuff or just jam. But be sure to keep it in check, if you're serious about covering the bass duties, you're gonna have to practice that. Play with fuzz, wah, or whatever effects you want and don't worry about sounding like a Cliff clone. You'll develop your own sound, style and tone by practicing and learning. Start with what you like AND can afford, and make it work.

Everything you just said was great. Never thought about it as being a valuable asset to the band. They even said they want me to help out with writing guitar parts and to be really involved, just play the bass live and recording. Guess that makes me feel a ton better. I'm betting I'll grow into it just like I did guitar, I just hope that in 20 years I'm not going to look back and think "I wish I had been the guitarist". I pretty sure I won't because everything has it's place and at least it's still similar.

Well thanks a ton for all the help guys, I'm done crying now and I'll act like a big boy.

As for the gear, any idea? I've never tried to find what fits in the mix for bass.

Koog · #16 01-08-2011, 09:54 PM

No soloist, no matter how good, can do the job without a great rhythm section. Without foundation and groove, the soloists have nothing to offer. PERIOD.

I think of the drummer and bass (me) as the creators and keepers of the groove. We've got to be locked completely with each other. When this happens, the soloist(s) have an easy job. All they have to do is catch the groove and dance on the edges.

This thought process does it for me.

Koog.

DerPrinz · #17 01-08-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkkkjkhk

right, but it doesn't feel big to you still? the thing's almost as tall as us.

When I play my friends guitar, it feels small, I think it's all about what you're used to. When I started playing, I hadn't really played guitar, I had nothing to compare it to, so now it feels natural.

jkkkjkhk · #18 01-08-2011, 10:05 PM

ok, guess I'll just grow into it.

Sartori · #19 01-08-2011, 10:10 PM

I didn't switch from guitar, but I would advise against standing at the back of the stage. There's no reason to do so. Get up front and move around.

Also, as far as equipment goes, it really depends on the sound you're after. Bass isn't as standardized as guitar, there are a lot of different pickup setups, neck profiles, electronics and such, and with amplification, a lot more different configurations as well.

Jazz basses, despite the name, work really great for heavy music. As for amps, there's tons of different types, depending on the sound you want. For tube amps, the most well known one is the Ampeg SVT. For solid state, lots of people love Gallien Krueger's models. There are lots more brands and models than that though.

You probably already know that you can save a lot of money by buying used.

jkkkjkhk · #20 01-08-2011, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sartori

I didn't switch from guitar, but I would advise against standing at the back of the stage. There's no reason to do so. Get up front and move around.

Well I didn't mean literally. Meant more like the guy no one knows, the one who's never interviewed, the one who never has lessons or clinics in magazines. I know I'm wrong about that but compared to guitarists it's somewhat true.