The OFFICIAL PROGRESSIVE ROCK BASS PLAYERS CLUB - Page 4

**john turner** · #61 04-30-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth

A few things I've often wondered, aside from the all-too-well-known "how exactly do you make a prog-sounding track" which probably has a million answers are...

How do you "go progressive" without overdoing the odd time and key signatures? This stems from the fact KR's keyboard player tends to overdo it at times, often trying to dazzle us with a 15/8 changing into 5/4 moving into 7/8 switching to 4/4... How do you balance the oddness and the regularity out? Do you even need to?

first of all, if you play something in odd time and it's been done on purpose ("look at me, i'm in odd time") then it's going to sound that way, and you run the risk of being labeled pretentious (at least, more of a risk of being labelled that. a lot of folks are going to call you pretentious for just -thinking- beyond the pbass/12-bar). you can force something in different time sigs to learn what they sound like, but just understand that it's going to sound that way.

you have to be really feeling a melody, really musically saying something that has meaning to you, and then whatever time sig it ends up in is what it is. if it's built around a melody or riff that has a solid foundation on it, then it's going to sound that way, it's going to sound sincere, and that's the only thing that matters, regardless of genre.

Quote:

Where do all the ideas for creating a 10+ minute song come from? How do you commonly come up with way to blend the song from a chapter to another? What trick does it for you?

well, you just gotta do what sounds/feels right to you. it's just like any other creative endeavor, it either works or it doesn't. you might think it does and some folks won't think so. shoot, that's like the mantra of prog right there - most folks aren't going to get it at all.

some would say that's sorta the point heh.

a more techinical answer might be that you use certain motifs from piece to piece, like similar guitar riffs but in different keys, or similar sounds/patches on different instruments.

cmewhinney · #62 04-30-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john turner

first of all, if you play something in odd time and it's been done on purpose ("look at me, i'm in odd time") then it's going to sound that way, and you run the risk of being labeled pretentious (at least, more of a risk of being labelled that. a lot of folks are going to call you pretentious for just -thinking- beyond the pbass/12-bar). you can force something in different time sigs to learn what they sound like, but just understand that it's going to sound that way.

you have to be really feeling a melody, really musically saying something that has meaning to you, and then whatever time sig it ends up in is what it is. if it's built around a melody or riff that has a solid foundation on it, then it's going to sound that way, it's going to sound sincere, and that's the only thing that matters, regardless of genre.

Jethro Tull comes to mind as being able to pull off really weird time changes while sounding totally natural. It takes some close listening to realize how complex some of their music is.

**john turner** · #63 04-30-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmewhinney

Jethro Tull comes to mind as being able to pull off really weird time changes while sounding totally natural. It takes some close listening to realize how complex some of their music is.

oh, yeah - they're awesome at fluid melodic changes. i'm all about tull. i probably listen to thick as a brick at least once or twice every month. never get tired of it, and i've been listening to it for 25 years.

cmewhinney · #64 04-30-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john turner

oh, yeah - they're awesome at fluid melodic changes. i'm all about tull. i probably listen to thick as a brick at least once or twice every month. never get tired of it, and i've been listening to it for 25 years.

TAAB is a great one! Strange as this sounds, lately I've been on an "electric" Tull kick- I've basically had Under Wraps and A on repeat for a couple weeks! So many great albums... Passion Play, Minstrel, Songs from the Wood and Heavy Horses are also favorites. Their unreleased stuff is great too. Man I could just go on and on and on and on...

Sound Chaser · #65 04-30-2009, 08:40 PM

My band is basically a mixture of everything we listen to, which runs through death metal, doom/stoner metal, prog, 70's hard rock, jazz, jazz fusion, avant-garde, and well just a bunch of stuff. I really love it, it's great to have found a bunch of guys to play with who just write what they want to without any real regard to genre.

rtav · #66 04-30-2009, 08:41 PM

Gotta agree with everyone about Tull - I think of U.K. (especially with Bruford) as having amazing time signatures (Presto Vivace and Reprise) but its only when you sit down and read the music do you realize HOW damn amazing the changes really are - 24/16 (1 measure), 4/4 (one measure), 9/8 (two measures), etc.... and yet it flows gracefully.

Genesis were very good about that, too - "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" is a great example,

Awesome stuff....

Stickk · #67 04-30-2009, 08:46 PM

Yes count me in. I'd like number 911,975 if possible. My band doesn't have a MySpace yet, but we shall soon. In my band there's me (bass [duh]), a saxaphonist, a violinist, a keyboardist, a drummer, and a fretless guitarist. We're currently looking for a marimba player (marimbist?) and a singer. I've got loads of lyrics written, however, and I do sing some songs with a vocoder.

rtav · #68 04-30-2009, 08:50 PM

Prog-Rock Bass Club Members so far:

1 - rtav
2 - wnelson
3 - robj
4 - wagstaff
5 - mvw356
6 - Stealth
7 - Sound Chaser
8 - RickenBoogie
9 - DR Burkowitz
10 - Pedulla?
11 - Jaymi
12 - WordToHerb
13 - Jay Terrien
14 - rydawg10
15 - seamus bass
16 - EagleMoon
17 - In Absentia
18 - beat
19 - john turner
20- cmewhinney
21 - Trapezius[/quote]
911,975 - Stickk

cmewhinney · #69 04-30-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtav

Gotta agree with everyone about Tull - I think of U.K.

Interestingly enough, Eddie Jobson played on a Jethro Tull album (A) and tour.

Trapezius · #70 04-30-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john turner

ok, let's start a discussion then, beyond the numbers

.

one thing prog bands are often known for is the multi-instrumental approach a lot of the band members take.

so what instruments, beyond bass, do you play in your band?

i'll start

.

fretted and fretless 7 and 8 (non-doubled) string bass, including a doubleneck 7 fretted/7 fretless

synth, via foot pedals, bass synth (13 pin roland style integrated in the bridges of quite a few of my basses) and the good old fashioned keyboard.

backing and "stunt" vocals (vocoder type-stuff).

i wrote all of our lyrics except for one song on the 2nd cd and wrote or cowrote all the music on both cds.

i also tracked/engineered and produced all of lord only's tracks, co-mixed our first cd with neil kernon(of queensryche fame, among others). i'm doing all the work on our 2nd cd too, now that we're sorta awake from our 4 year old coma.

I'm a keyboardist, really.. I just play bass too, and love it. I also sing the high notes.

infamusblkdeath · #71 04-30-2009, 10:13 PM

i'd love a number if possible.thanks

rtav · #72 05-01-2009, 07:19 AM

Prog-Rock Bass Club Members so far:

1 - rtav
2 - wnelson
3 - robj
4 - wagstaff
5 - mvw356
6 - Stealth
7 - Sound Chaser
8 - RickenBoogie
9 - DR Burkowitz
10 - Pedulla?
11 - Jaymi
12 - WordToHerb
13 - Jay Terrien
14 - rydawg10
15 - seamus bass
16 - EagleMoon
17 - In Absentia
18 - beat
19 - john turner
20- cmewhinney
21 - Trapezius
22 - infamusblkdeath
911,975 - Stickk

wnelson · #73 05-01-2009, 07:42 AM

to answer JT question:

Im all about learning new instruments

I also write lyrics and play a small amount of synth (i love that midi board in your pics..im completely jealous)

Im currently learning the melodica for fun..lol..next will be electric violin with effects...mainly for some swell work and creating more layers in the studio...nothing too special.

I work 5 minutes for our rehearsal spot,so im up there everyday on lunch writing and phrasing music....whether im playing bass,or creating samples on ''fruity loops''.....I write a few guitar riffs....i mainly gut out the transitions and scales,and they'll come in and put the actual rhythm/spin on it....but it keeps the process moving from all angles....never a wasted moment..

great discussion,keep em coming!!

**john turner** · #74 05-01-2009, 04:56 PM

talking about multi-instrumentation, i have actually encouraged both the guitarists i've been working with to occasionally play bass (let em play my doubleneck ric 4080, with the guitar and bass) while i do higher register (usually distorted) bass stuff.

Naff · #75 05-02-2009, 06:40 PM

Sign me up! i love prog! ive played a bit of prog but ive left my band for injury reasons

rtav · #76 05-02-2009, 07:03 PM

Prog-Rock Bass Club Members so far:

1 - rtav
2 - wnelson
3 - robj
4 - wagstaff
5 - mvw356
6 - Stealth
7 - Sound Chaser
8 - RickenBoogie
9 - DR Burkowitz
10 - Pedulla?
11 - Jaymi
12 - WordToHerb
13 - Jay Terrien
14 - rydawg10
15 - seamus bass
16 - EagleMoon
17 - In Absentia
18 - beat
19 - john turner
20- cmewhinney
21 - Trapezius
22 - infamusblkdeath
23 - Naff
911,975 - Stickk

**john turner** · #77 05-04-2009, 08:16 PM

surely there are more. no?

Stealth · #78 05-05-2009, 02:11 AM

Well, it can't be that there's so few of us. Especially so few willing to discuss.

Pedulla? · #79 05-05-2009, 02:54 AM

To follow up on the discussion of writing tactics: Writing stuff thats considered progressive or avant-garde or whatever has never been a conscious thing for me at all. Its always just been: this is the music I wrote, the end. I just write music and then the rest follows, questions about time and key and technique and rhythm. When in reality all I was thinking about was the song, not any of that other stuff not even if it sounds good. In fact whenever I listen to crazy stuff never ever do I think about crazy time signatures or key signatures I don't hear that, I just hear music. I don't know hopefully that didn't make me sound like an a$$hole.

Pedulla? · #80 05-05-2009, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john turner

pretty cool stuff there.

i'm not much for the "club scene" here at tb, but i think i qualify for this one

. i'll take number #00

but i don't really need a number (don't like to play favorites heh)

on my (newly created

) myspace, i have some very rough mixes from our 2nd cd that haven't been finished yet (for the past 4 years lol). they're titled dante's cafe, parts 1-4.

http://www.myspace.com/lordonly

these are all intended to go together, 1 through 4. all parts of one big piece, so to speak, so d/l all 4 and then listen in succession.

like i said, rough mixes.

the 4th piece is not quite finished, has a few minor vocal parts missing, but you get the idea. was fun doing these live, had a chance to do a lot of bass synth on my doubleneck.

I just listened to the Paradise Lost thing and I liked it. It kinda reminded me of Aprodities Child.