Paul McCartney's style/tone

E2daGGurl · #1 08-05-2008, 12:11 AM

I'm interested in his "Hard Day's Night Period," particularly, "And I Love Her."

I've got the tab ( and am playing ) what appears to be the same melody/line that Paul is playing.

My pitch/tone sounds close - but somehow, his bass seems much deeper than mine (I'm not sure how to put this). It could be partly volume - I have no idea ( I just started, I'm no Sir Paul ).

He also appears to be playing with his thumb in a pick-like fashion, which is how I approached it early on (until convinced somehow that I should be using pointer and third finger). I'm going back to thumb now - and it sounds better, but any other tips would be appreciated.

In particular, when I play notes on my G string, they don't sound like Paul's. The rest sounds okay, considering.

I'm playing a Fender Jazz Bass with Fender strings, as equipped from factory.

I have a feeling it's partly strings - so if you want to advise me on strings, please do.

Siegy · #2 08-05-2008, 12:18 AM

I'm pretty sure at this point Paul was still using the Hofner bass. That might have a bit to do with the tone. As far as strings go, Paul uses "long shiny ones".

D.Don · #3 08-05-2008, 12:27 AM

Did he use his thumb to pick the strings at that time too?

D.Don

Siegy · #4 08-05-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.Don

Did he use his thumb to pick the strings at that time too?

D.Don

I would assume so. Hell, he still does that.

To the OP, could you elaborate on how the G string sounds different? You may need to tinker with your tone control on your bass.

D.Don · #5 08-05-2008, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siegy

I would assume so. Hell, he still does that.

Amazing!

D.Don

MysticMichael · #6 08-05-2008, 12:39 AM

It's OK to try to reproduce the tones/style of one of your favorite players. For one thing, it can be a great learning experience. But unless your goal in life is to play in a Beatles tribute band, it is infinitely preferable to develop your own sound & style instead...

Realize that there's only so much you can do to try to sound like anyone else - even if you have that player's identical gear and completely mimic his technique...because his style is unique to himself, and there's only so much anyone else can do to capture it. As we so often say here at TalkBass, "Your tone is in your fingers." And it's true...

MM

GeneralElectric · #7 08-05-2008, 12:40 AM

My solution is getting some Rotosound Trubass strings. Its not the same strings he's used on his Hofner, but on a Jazz with the bridge pup and treble knobs rolled off it sounds kinda close.

You should also be hitting the strings close to the neck too and use a light touch for that pillow-y sound.

Also boost the low mids section on whatever amp you're using.

EddieG · #8 08-05-2008, 04:39 AM

I have a violin copy and a Warmoth J, and you've no chance of getting his tone out of a Jazz Bass, its immaterial whether you put flats on or not. As you no doubt know, in the early Beatles period he was using the Hofner exclusively, and it was a hollow bodied guitar. I'm pretty sure he also used the neck pickup only.

iamthebassman · #9 08-05-2008, 07:36 AM

I play bass in a Beatles trib band and I'd suggest, since you have a Fender Jazz, go for the tone he got on Beatles tunes he used a Fender Jazz on. A much better tone than his early Hofner tone. IMO.

And, tho' Paul used his thumb on a very few "mellow" tunes, in his Beatles days he most always used a pick.

brem · #10 08-05-2008, 07:42 AM

Let the man himself show you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFcsEtFIKA

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fW8Tk1JJ3M

hee hee

iamthebassman · #11 08-05-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralElectric

My solution is getting some Rotosound Trubass strings. Its not the same strings he's used on his Hofner, but on a Jazz with the bridge pup and treble knobs rolled off it sounds kinda close.

You should also be hitting the strings close to the neck too and use a light touch for that pillow-y sound.

Also boost the low mids section on whatever amp you're using.

He DID use Rotosound Trubass strings on his Hofner during the Let It Be sessions.

The Lurker · #12 08-05-2008, 10:21 AM

A chunk of his sound was in the bass he used-- a short-scale hollowbody with flatwound strings. Instruments like that characteristically produce a deep, round tone that some people like, and others find to be muddy. Fenders will sound different, though you can adjust the way you play to sound more like the Hofner (e.g. play with a light tough, and pluck with your thumb over the neck pickup). Also helps to have the bridge pickup turned off and the tone knob almost all the way down.

iamthebassman · #13 08-05-2008, 10:27 AM

Foam mute.

megadan · #14 08-05-2008, 10:36 AM

That "notes seem deeper" tone, IMHO, often comes from the equipment and electronics being used, and not the bass. Paul at that time would be been using a tube amp, but for recordings he may also have used their new DI technique - but into a tube-based console! In either case you're hearing the sound of tubes and analog tape, and one of the effects of good quality analog gear is that "deeper low notes" sound that modern gear sometimes lacks.

E2daGGurl · #15 08-05-2008, 11:26 AM

Thanks so much, everybody! I don't want to sound like Paul, in general, (well, if somehow I did, I wouldn't complain), but just want to sound more confident on this one song.

I'm going back to using my thumb, don't see why adding that technique should be a problem - and although I've watched that video before, I watched it again (thanks for posting it, now I've got a portable copy of it!) and I think he uses his thumb almost exclusively (although he may fingerpick at one point).

I wanted to try different strings, so thanks for the Rotosound suggestion. If you all were buying a violin style bass, which one would it be?

We've got a tube amp, but I do think that since I'm hearing a recording, that the recording technique may be part of it. Megadan, I'll bet you're right about that tube console.

I think the hollow body (if I get one) will help with the sound, too.

I love the sound of my Fender Jazz on everything else (we play jazz, blues and a little rockabilly). I can't wait till practice today to try the pickup and treble suggestions, though.

That G string problem isn't just on this one song though, but it could be treble settings are too squeaky. No one else seems to notice that my G string sounds less round, but I don't think it's just me.

Oh - and if anyone can comment on short neck hollow body basses, i've been thinking about this for weeks now - wouldn't the short neck make the sound quite different? Most of the hollow body basses I see on eBay or in the GC are longneck ones, not even sure where I'd have to go to see/play a shortneck one.

The Lurker · #16 08-05-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E2daGGurl

Oh - and if anyone can comment on short neck hollow body basses, i've been thinking about this for weeks now - wouldn't the short neck make the sound quite different? Most of the hollow body basses I see on eBay or in the GC are longneck ones, not even sure where I'd have to go to see/play a shortneck one.

Yep. The scale changes things, plus they generally have lower string tension than regular-scale basses. They are harder to find, though.

It's funny, though, how many players used short-scale hollowbodies as secret weapons because of how different they sound... even just in the 90s, Justin Meldal-Johnsen with Beck and a zillion other people, and Rob DeLeo from Stone Temple Pilots.

WalWarrior · #17 08-05-2008, 12:36 PM

I don't know what your budget is, but you can get a neat little Hofner Icon and put Flats on it for prolly around 350.00 US.

Hofners really capture the sound of the 62-66 area music. Take care - Dennis

nysbob · #18 08-05-2008, 12:57 PM

You can also get pretty close to Paul's sound with danelectro longhorn or U-1.

Thunderthumbs73 · #19 08-05-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

It's OK to try to reproduce the tones/style of one of your favorite players. For one thing, it can be a great learning experience. But unless your goal in life is to play in a Beatles tribute band, it is infinitely preferable to develop your own sound & style instead...

Realize that there's only so much you can do to try to sound like anyone else - even if you have that player's identical gear and completely mimic his technique...because his style is unique to himself, and there's only so much anyone else can do to capture it. As we so often say here at TalkBass, "Your tone is in your fingers." And it's true...

MM

With all due respect, I would take a different approach. I think it's more than just ok to reproduce tones/style. It's a great idea to get inside this music this way. We would agree that it is a great learning experience, but it's more than that. I think we differ in that I believe it pays dividends beyond or wider than being in/doing a Beatles tribute band. I don't think that it's true that unless you're doing a Beatles tribute band "as your life goal", you shouldn't learn to reproduce tones/style of McCartney. I would not make that my "bar" or litmus test for learning McCartney. I think you can learn McCartney as closely as you can, but still be you. You don't have to trade McCartney tone/style/notes for your own sound/art/artisty/voice. It's NOT an either/or proposition, thought there are so many people who seem to think it is.

I'd say strive to "be" McCartney all you want, if that's what you like. Or "be" Sting, and whoever else floats your boat. In the end, and in my experience, you have not sacrificed one iota, or "traded" your ability to produce your own original thoughts/statements for the ability to reproduce the tones/style/notes of McCartney or anyone else you like.

I think the MysticMichael's position, as I read it and understand it, as "don't try to "be" McCartney because in reality, you can't really be him. As I understand it, that's "the end answer." With all due respect, I would differ in that I know of course it's impossible to truly be someone else, but that would not stop me from learning/gleaning all I could about the way McCartney plays, adding it to my own knowledge of the bass/bass playing.

I believe, in general, we as musicians have the ability to be multi-dimensional in our approach to music; that we can operate on more than one level and musical multi-task. I believe we can mimic/copy/reproduce/etc... but still have our own voice.

I throw out the example of Will Lee, but I don't wish to hijack the thread and make this all about Will Lee.

Will, as I know him, is an avowed Beatles fan. I don't doubt he can play those lines with authority, and perhaps as exactly as it can be played. I think he may have done some Beatles tribute albums/bands in the past with other guys in the NYC area where he's based. (amazon.com?) Of course, Will also plays the bass lines of other songs, and as far as I'm concerned, he has a rather encyclopedic knowledge of the bass parts of so many songs of others. And he shows it night after night on TV on Letterman. He may be one of the bass playing community's most prolific and visible "copiers" of bass parts. In fact, he's so good at it, the guest musicians often have him perform with their band, doing songs off the album they're promoting. I am thinking of XTC, and "King For A Day", but I'm sure there are others. (Youtube)

Yet, that's not all he's done, and it doesn't define him or put him in a box. He has done a lot of work doing original bass lines in session work. His work with The Brecker Brothers most immediately comes to mind. As a NYC session guy, I know he's done a lot of work with/for others. The most recent I can think of is a 2008 album called "Urban Sessions" by the artist, Sunlightsquare. Check it out! He can "copy" McCartney as much as anyone can, but I'm still hard-pressed to hear any of that influence on these original works.

You can have your cake and eat it too!

Just my (more than) two cents.
Respectfully.

JimK · #20 08-05-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lurker

Yep. The scale changes things, plus they generally have lower string tension than regular-scale basses.

A bassist/collector in-town here has an early Hofner strung with Pyramid flatwound strings...he's into being authentic & he sez these were the brand of strings sold with the instrument.
IIRC, it was high tension (very taut/tight feel)...the "E" string was huge (string gauge) in comparison to the other 3 strings.
This bass sounded pretty good on an impromtu "So What" jam.