Phil Lesh's Tone - Late 60's early 70's.

Floridabwoy · #1 09-24-2009, 09:03 AM

Any body know what strings he used? I am trying to get that clean big bottom Phil used to get. I use Peavey Foundation w. Super Ferrites and TI Jazz flats, and an Ibanez ATK w. Chromes, I am building a Precision with a Darkstar ( I know he used guild guitars even though they were jazz style).

So what is giving him such bottom? Sounds to me like a combo of rounds w. a neck pickup.

Joe.shaffer · #2 09-24-2009, 09:08 AM

It's a lot of things I think. I remember in the book he wrote he was talking about a custom bass he had, he said the cable it used was almost as big as the line off a gas pump. That and the wall of sound speaker setup. I would think an active bass heavy on the neck p/u with nickel rounds would be my first try.

**jbybj** · #3 09-24-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floridabwoy

Any body know what strings he used? I am trying to get that clean big bottom Phil used to get. I use Peavey Foundation w. Super Ferrites and TI Jazz flats, and an Ibanez ATK w. Chromes, I am building a Precision with a Darkstar ( I know he used guild guitars even though they were jazz style).

So what is giving him such bottom? Sounds to me like a combo of rounds w. a neck pickup.

You might as well ask what tires should I put on my Pacer so that I can compete in the Indy 500..........

**baba** · #4 09-24-2009, 09:21 AM

Starting in late '69 he played a modified Gibson EB3 with Guild single coils and custom pre. After that was the Godfather - a Guild Starfire heavily modified by Alembic with superfilter and quadraphonic pickup.

I think you are on the right track with the neck position Dark Star and rounds. Don't forget to use a pick.

mellowgerman · #5 09-24-2009, 09:24 AM

an alembic superfilter for each pickup. also, his pickups (hagstrom bisonics - came stock on starfires from 65-70) were modded, rewound to make them low impedance.
he used put pyramid gold flats then, but I've heard that they're no longer anything like they used to be.
you're also going to want to use a tube amp.
I can get really close with my starfire, the mods I've done to it, and my rig, but it's still not quite there... but then I'm technically aiming more for the casady sound...

**and oh yeah, a lot of his sound did come from the neck pickup

**baba** · #6 09-24-2009, 09:27 AM

Mellowgerman, is that your Starfire as your avatar? I think I see Darkstars....please tell me more!

mellowgerman · #7 09-24-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

Mellowgerman, is that your Starfire as your avatar? I think I see Darkstars....please tell me more!

Sure is.
It's a dearmond... or the body and neck of one anyway

Here's a closer look and a second photo

Floridabwoy · #8 09-24-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbybj

You might as well ask what tires should I put on my Pacer so that I can compete in the Indy 500..........

hey thanks... obviosly I do not have a billion dollars to recreate it. Just trying to get close.

Everyone else, thanks for the info.

**baba** · #9 09-24-2009, 09:39 AM

Gorgeous. What's the low down on the knobs/configuration?

mellowgerman · #10 09-24-2009, 09:50 AM

all passive!
from right to left:
pickup selector switch, master volume, high pass control, varitone plus mid-notch filter, varitone plus push-pull blend control

**jbybj** · #11 09-24-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floridabwoy

hey thanks... obviosly I do not have a billion dollars to recreate it. Just trying to get close.

Everyone else, thanks for the info.

Hey, I'm having kind of a crappy morning, and I took it out on you, uncalled for. I'm sorry.

JBY

DaveF · #12 09-24-2009, 10:00 AM

Wow, I just heard a Dead song on the radio 2 days ago and it blew my mind with bass greatness...

Now for the question.. where did he pick? Toward the neck or back by the bridge?

mellowgerman · #13 09-24-2009, 10:00 AM

And oh yeah, you're definitely going to want flat wound strings to get close to his sound

Picking around the middle/neck area... with some variation

**Thor** · #14 09-24-2009, 10:08 AM

Here is the Godfather. As you can see it was heavily modded
by Alembic if I recall.

Floridabwoy · #15 09-24-2009, 10:49 AM

jbybj its all good....

It is funny how lesh has labels on his knobs so he can remember what everything does when he is wasted....

AltGrendel · #16 09-24-2009, 07:20 PM

Here's a thread from alembic's site:
http://alembic.com/club/messages/411...tml?1205060059

Fred Hammon · #17 10-04-2009, 03:47 AM

[/quote]

Wow!
Thanks, Thor.
I've never seen this photo of Phil with the Godfather before.
Maybe not the best (head down) but very high quality and interesting in it's own way with the masking tape, probably marking settings. Good find! Very cool.
It's now downloaded and filed.

Here's a couple more that I've posted before.
Earlier Phil with earlier basses:

and one later:

**baba** · #18 10-05-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Hammon

Wow!
Thanks, Thor.
I've never seen this photo of Phil with the Godfather before.
Maybe not the best (head down) but very high quality and interesting in it's own way with the masking tape, probably marking settings. Good find! Very cool.
It's now downloaded and filed.

This pic is from the 5/19/06 show at the Warfield Theatre.

Nice pics!!

**Thor** · #19 10-09-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Hammon

Wow!
Thanks, Thor.
I've never seen this photo of Phil with the Godfather before.
Maybe not the best (head down) but very high quality and interesting in it's own way with the masking tape, probably marking settings. Good find! Very cool.
It's now downloaded and filed.

Here's a couple more that I've posted before.
Earlier Phil with earlier basses:

Thanks Fred. Great to see you on the board. I really hope
someday we can meet. If I ever get out West again, I will be
calling you. Just for the giggles and a look at the shop.
You are the man!
Olafur

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

This pic is from the 5/19/06 show at the Warfield Theatre.

Nice pics!!

Thanks for that info! I thought it was earlier, but that
puts some perspective on it.

Edit: Wow. Look at how young Bob Weir looks. Wonder what year that was.