Playing with Baritone Guitars

Skygoneblue · #1 10-15-2010, 08:50 AM

I've been curious about this for a long time, but never really found much of a solid answer.

A lot of modern metal bands are opting for 7-8 string guitars to reach WAY down into low tunings. The part that has always confused me is the role of the bassist at that point.

Speaking only in terms of pitch, am I wrong in saying that a normal guitar's low E string is the same pitch as 2nd fret on a bass's D string? If so, a 7 string guitar with a low B would then easily cover the pitch range of an A string on a bass, so on and so forth.

What do the bassists do? Do they seriously tune a 5 string bass down into nearly inaudible pitch ranges? Or do they play what is essentially the same pitch on a bigger instrument with no distortion and a different EQ?

Anyone have any insight as to how this works?

Nashrakh · #2 10-15-2010, 09:02 AM

Usually tune down to guitar tuning one octave down, yeah.

In rare cases, bass tunes up instead of down - like Meshuggah (F tuning).

And clean? No, gotta be as distorted as the guitars. At that point, your only role is to fill in the already ridiculous low-end.

Well, a few bands manage to pull that off without the whole thing turning into mud (I can think of some Stoner/Doom and Death/Grind bands where it actually works)... your average weekend warrior can't.

dmusic148 · #3 10-15-2010, 09:07 AM

This sort of thing makes me want to play the clarinet or something.

Skygoneblue · #4 10-15-2010, 09:53 AM

Haha, exactly... I've owned quite a few 5-strings, and none of them did very well past a low A tuning (whole step). It wasn't necessary flub or tone, just that the note is so dang low, you barely hear or feel it.

Gawd · #5 10-15-2010, 10:40 AM

I'm in this exact situation with a band currently. I play a 6 string, the guitarists in the band used to play 7 strings, and a few months back started playing 8 strings. So far there hasn't been any conflict, I tend to move around quite a bit on the neck, and they tend to play in the mid range to higher range more than the lower.

I stay in standard tuning (B-C), so do they (F#-E). So far it seems that the low F# sharp is pretty pointless, it's used at times to add some extra deep grit to the sound, but it seems like a novelty to me.

I've never been one to just double what the guitars play anyways, so it hasn't had any affect on my parts. In the case of the bass doubling the guitar there isn't much use for a bass with 8 string guitars, as a band like Animals As Leaders makes apparent.

Bloodhammer · #6 10-15-2010, 10:47 AM

Very interesting question.

The last Stoner/Doom band I was in toyed with the idea of going drop-A. I play 5er's mostly, so if I dropped my B to A, I'd be in the same tuning? Or would it still be an octave lower than guitar?

I told them they didn't really need a bassist in that tuning and I don't think I was covering up my annoyance very well...

dokazaado · #7 10-15-2010, 10:51 AM

ha, I tried to explain this with words, but I made it too complicated.
obviously, E-A-D-G-B-E is to E-A-D-G as B-E-A-D-G-B-E is to B-E-A-D-G.
bassists have an extra string or tune down, guitarists have or do the same.
Bands who tune to A or lower are just ridiculous, though.
I have yet to hear that sound really good.

I'm really over downtuning in general, though.
it's just been done to death.
time for something new, dudes.

dokazaado · #8 10-15-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

Very interesting question.

The last Stoner/Doom band I was in toyed with the idea of going drop-A. I play 5er's mostly, so if I dropped my B to A, I'd be in the same tuning? Or would it still be an octave lower than guitar?

I told them they didn't really need a bassist in that tuning and I don't think I was covering up my annoyance very well...

still an octave lower, dude.

Bloodhammer · #9 10-15-2010, 03:14 PM

Okay, I thought so. It just sounds muddy as hell...

I'm very averse to downtuning my bass. I mean, it's already got a low B, so why should I ever have to? My last band eventually played in drop-D-flat, as I call it, so it was Db Ab Db Gb Bb Eb on guitar.

I just transposed their Db to correspond to my 2nd fret on the 5th string and all their other open strings corresponded to the forth frets on E A and D and then my third fret on G. Sounds complicated, huh? It was actually easier to remember where my notes were than keep changing my tuning when they did.

Sartori · #10 10-16-2010, 04:21 AM

My guitarist got a 7-string.

He soon learned that him chugging on that low B for more than a couple notes would result in me interpreting it as time for a bass solo.

I have made it fairly clear that the day he brings an 8-string to rehearsal is the day I disband the group. I have heard only one band that sounds good using 8-string guitars. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to play that low, get a ****in bass.

Kraken · #11 10-16-2010, 05:06 AM

I tend to find if guitarists bring their frequecy range down, that I can play further up the neck which can confuse some people when they are watching us live, but it is still possible for everyone to have their own sonic space even when guitarists are using low tuned instruments,

<blatant plug>the Thinking For Tuesday Song 'Tonight' does just that, where one guitarist has a guitar tuned down to C so I take the opportunity to go up the neck, the first note I play is the high C two frets down from the 12fret D String, go have a listen, myspace link below</blatant plug>

N8-N · #12 10-16-2010, 05:57 AM

Guitarists use 8/7 strings guitars when they realise bass is too cool for them.

rick0link · #13 10-16-2010, 06:44 AM

i was in a band once that did this. we were like dueling basses and the sound was HUGE. we tuned E-E and without the bass it sounded very thin. so being tuned to the same pitch allowed the overall sound to be really good.

4Mal · #14 10-16-2010, 07:06 AM

I play Baritone guitar B to B - but I keep my tone clean and snappy - there's a lot of power and punch on tap down there - sounds cool when playing a low harmony line with clear and punchy bass ... distortion down deep just sucks the punch out. You have to actually play your lines cleanly to pull it off but to my ear anyway it sounds hella betta than the wall of mud approach ...

JimmyM · #15 10-16-2010, 10:55 AM

guitarists who tune down way low should cut more low end out of their sound so they still sound like a guitar. that's how king's x was always able to pull it off and have the bass still sound like bass.

sonic assassin · #16 10-16-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

guitarists who tune down way low should cut more low end out of their sound so they still sound like a guitar. that's how king's x was always able to pull it off and have the bass still sound like bass.

word. the mud people are talking about comes from loose strings and poor EQ work. there is room for everyone.

it really depends on the genre. death metal bassists either contribute absolutely nothing to the mix, or they go all tech and fly around. either way they get mixed out (turn your mids back on, kids).

in a post-hardcore band like mine, we are in C# and our bassist gets all the room he wants. i convinced my other guitarist to take his lows down. i taught him all my octave manipulation secrets and now even if we're relentlessly chugging along the bottom, he can cut the mix.

4Mal · #17 10-16-2010, 04:24 PM

The mud I was referring to was as much in the distortion realm as EQ ...