Playing Jewish Music as a bassist

[Yakob]

Well, I've seen a lot of Christian bass clubs, why not a Jewish one?

I'll start by listing some famous or well known Jewish bassists:

• Geddy Lee
• 'Fat Mike' Burkett
• Gene Simmons
• Tony Levin

So, I'm number one. I sure as hell hope that there's a number two out there somewhere.

Admin edit: For consistency with the Christian bassists thread, this thread is to discuss issues / questions relating to playing Jewish idioms of music as a bass player rather than a Jewish bass players club.

[caeman]

At Beth Messiah, many in the band have been trying to bring the music book up to date with some more modern tunes. Recently, we've added 7 new songs from Paul Wilbur at the all-band practice we have once a month. The song book we've been using is heavily liturgical, which is not bad, but since the book hasn't expanded in over a year, many of the songs have become played too often. Essentially, imagine a church that never uses any songs BUT the ones in the Hymnal. That is the rut we had gotten in.

I am learning bass on all of the new songs as I attempt to transition to playing bass for erev shabbat and shabbat services, from drum set.

If you like songs in minor keys, well, I've got a whole song book filled with them!

[kesslari]

I'd like clarification as well guys.

Where does it say that Relgious talk is allowed on Talkbass?

There is certainly a lot of Religious discussion on and in the Christian bassists and Praise and Worship threads. So let's be evenhanded in things, shall we?

Also - in the US especially, being Jewish is as much (or more for some people) a cultural experience as a religious one.
Many Jews who have never set foot inside a synagogue or celebrated a Jewish holiday have had the crap beaten out of them or have experienced discrimination by anti-Semitic people. The CR&R's in my neighborhood (old and not enforced and non-enforceable) still prohibit home ownership by "negroes and jews".

With that said, I was thinking last night that for this thread to make sense as a "Jewish Bassists" club thread, it should include some discussion of playing music in a Jewish context, much as the P&W thread is at least somewhat focused on playing music in a Christian P&W context.

Hence my mention of Klezmer and Ladino musics, both of which I play.

So folks - how does your experience of being Jewish influence your music?

For me - there are a few main ways.
One is that Harmonic minor and its modes feel very natural to me, because I grew up hearing so much music written in them. I tend to use Frygish (the klezmer name for the dominant of Harmonic minor - what Todd Johnson and some other music educators call "Spanish Dominant" when playing over altered dominants.

Another is that, because my ancestors came from what were Western provinces of the Ottoman empire, I have a connection with Turkish and Arab music. That gives me a great deal of comfort with odd time signatures, and led to a long and happy involvment playing Turkish percussion (and creating The Doumbek Video for Lark in the Morning).
That also led to my discovering Ladino music, the music of the descendents of the Jews who were expelled from Spain in 1492. Beautiful music, with Spanish roots and branches and flowers developed in whatever places these refugees landed (Turkey, North Africa, the Balkans, Holland, etc.)

Finally, some of my phrasing on fretless bass is influenced by Klezmer soloists. Incredibly vocal and expressive improvisational tradition there. My goal is not to be half the bass player that Jaco was, but half the clarinet player that Naftule Brandwein was

How about y'all?

[caeman]

Playing Jewish music has changed how I approach playing the drum set. The rhythms are not country or rock and roll, there is a little more there in there to be aware of...even on drum set.

Well over 50% of the music we play is in Hebrew, so the music structure fits that. When we sing parts of them in English, it sounds a little strange.

[Holy War]

what happened to this thread? It went from 2 pages to 3 posts...

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Holy War

what happened to this thread? It went from 2 pages to 3 posts...

Not sure. HOwever, given it seems to be focused on the Jewish aspects of bass playing perhaps it should be back in "bassists" rather than the Lobby?

In any event, I am not Jewish, but some of my faouvrite music to both listen and play along to is John Zorn's Masada stuff. I love the 50th Birthday Celebration recording of the Masada Sextet and Bar Kokba, but also the Electric Masada stuff. "At the Mountains of Madness" is one of my favourite CDs. If you want to here some cook takes on traditional Jewish music it is excellent. THe bass solo in Karim on At the Mountains of Madness is awesome too!

[kesslari]

Yes, it was moved to "Lobby" and, predictably, the thread died.
I've been talking with the Mods and Admins about moving it back.
For it to be in bassists, it needs to be focused on aspects of "playing Jewish music as a bass player" rather than "being Jewish and a bass player". That's reasonable.

The problem, as I explained yesterday, is that for this thread to have the possibility of going in that direction, it will need to mature, and to mature it needs to grow (and to be out of Lobby so it can get the traffic it needs to grow). It's a bit of a catch-22, and I understand how that can be a conundrum for the mods.

I posted ( a few posts back) about my experiences of playing Jewish music.
Anyone else?

[David Wilson]

Originally Posted by Holy War

what happened to this thread? It went from 2 pages to 3 posts...

cleaned up to keep on topic prior to move to bassists...

[Jason Sypher]

After moving to New York I became more and more involved with klezmer, middle eastern and Balkan music. My wife's family ran a hundred year old Catskill mountain resort which was predominantly Jewish. Friday night was dancing in the social hall and I started to get interested in the music I heard thumping downstairs till 1am. I am not an academic, I never really studied the music. It just became woven into the fabric of my life. I began getting calls to play Klezmer gigs which led to the formation of my band Nikitov which is a New York/Dutch quartet that played Yiddish songs mixed with Balkan music and gypsy jazz. We went on to tour in Europe and eastern Europe and play an all Synagogue tour in 2005/2006 which included roughly 25 Synogogues. It was an intense experience performing in those sacred spaces and very humbling. Currently I'm rehearsing for a recording with actor Michael Ingram. The music is more in a light classical vein. Most I've learned to recognize and understand how much overlap there is with middle eastern music
and enjoy integrating the rhythms into my playing and life. It's been a hell of a journey

[thombo]

while not entirely sure of their heritage/religion...
Fima Ephron w/ Hasidic New Wave
Greg Cohen w/ acoustic Masada
Trevor Dunn w/ electric Masada

[kesslari]

Jason,
Very cool! That sounds like a fantastic set of experiences.

There is a HUGE overlap between Klezmer and Middle Eastern and Balkan musics - Klezmer originated in areas that had also been under the Ottoman empire. One example - the more "modern" rubato improvisation in Klezmer is called "Doina", but the older type of rubato improvisation is called "taqsim", which is a term used in (and derived from) Turkish and Arab music. There's a quote from a Klezmer musician at the turn of the century (1800's to 1900's) about how the younger musicians don't seem to care about playing taqsim anymore, and just want to play doinas.

[kesslari]

Oh, BTW, there is a great independent movie (hard to find) called "Carpathi" - a documentary that explores the connections between Klezmer and Gypsy music and musicians in the Carpathian mountains.
Great movie...

[jgsbass]

Although it seems like forever, I've been doing clubdates for 30 years now. About 15 years ago, I started getting gigs with Orthodox jewish bands. That meant 4 hours (sometimes more) of music with no English at all. I had to rely on my ears in the beginning to learn the book. There is a lot of traditional songs as well as a real strong pop music component to modern Jewish Orthodox music. Mordechai ben David, Shlomo Carlbach, David Broza and a lot of others are "stars" of this new pop music that is currently popular for both secular and non secular reasons. Nowadays, most of these bands have a book with charts for all the songs, but certainly not when I started doing this.
Whether you give me a number or not, I'm a big #1 in this club.

[bongomania]

Slight tangent, but the band Polkacide doesn't just play polka, they also throw in some freilach, hora, and other klezmer motifs and tunes. Last time I saw them play (several years ago) the bassist was wearing his Warwick up high, which to me was a funny look for traditional music--but then, they are a funny-looking band. The bass lines were mostly just polka staccato octaves and fifths, but that's about all that is needed in the context of the faster dance sections of klezmer. He mostly sat out the slow sections.

[caeman]

Klezmer is one of those music styles I would like to try, as a drummer and bassist. I've listened to it and I love the overall sound, tempo, the rhythms.

Is there such a thing as a open jam session for klezmer? Cincinnati has a large Jewish population. I should probably start there for info.

[Mark Latimour]

Aviv Geffen (an Isreali pop artist who has worked with Steve Wilson in Blackfield) also does a lot of good pop music, but it generally falls outside of traditional jewish style music (although he does sing in Hebrew if that helps!).

[ezrs]

check out Fima Ephron. killer bassist with his own albums (Soul Machine on Tzadik records) and an awesome sideman (with John Medeski & David Fiuczynski on lunar crush)

i play lots of Zorn's Masada pieces and some traditional Sephardic music with a drummer and flamenco guitarist. a ton of fun to improvise over!

[VroomVroom]

VERY informative thread - thanks. One of the bandleaders I work for/with has tapped into the market for traditional Jewish music. In the past 18 months I've played more Bar Mitzvahs, Bat Mitzvahs, and Jewish weddings than at any time in my career. We've settled mostly into a few different Hora medleys, but also full versions of great tunes like "Zemer Atik." Fascinating stuff, and the harmonies and resolutions are just awesome.

It's awesome to read about this from a musical perspective, and I'm definitely a sponge for all of the information. At the risk of crossing any lines, I'll just add that all of these gigs have been a blast. I generally consider wedding gigs, just as an example, to be "work" - don the tux, maybe share a few laughs with the other cats on the date, but otherwise it's all about being disciplined and then cashing the check. At these gigs, however, it's like a ray of sunshine. Everyone having a blast and genuinely celebrating the moment without inhibition.

[selowitch]

I love Israeli, klezmer, Jewishly themed music. I think playing in a bar/bat mitzvah band would be a blast. Some of those dance beats are tricky, but if the bassist can nail them, it really makes the song.

Also, want to reinforce the point made earlier that Jewishness (the overall cultural and civilizational state of being Jewish) is wider than the experience of Judaism (the Jewish faith). It's a cultural, ethnic, and linguistic identity in addition to a religious one. And we're really not talking about the faith part here, certainly not in the sense that we're trying to proselytize or anything like that. Non-Jews can play and enjoy Jewish music just like I can enjoy Greek or Russian music.

[Holy War]

Anyone a fan of Matisyahu?