In Praise of PATITUCCI!!!!

[Psychicpet]

ok, so I've been a big fan of JP for a long time but it was only until this week-end that I'd finally heard the GRP gem "John Patitucci"!!!!

I can't believe how great this disc is!

[Baryonyx]

Yes, he is an excellent player!

[iplaybassguitar]

Originally Posted by Chris2112

Yes, he is an excellent player!

+1

[ninnlangel]

I think he's really at his best with Wayne Shorter's Quartet though !

[capnsandwich]

John Patitucci to me is the father of modern jazz bassists. So many bassists copy his style and technique. Listen to Victor Wooten after you listen to John play. There's some notable resemblences. Even Adam Nitti has a little John in him.

[JAUQO III-X]

Not to get into a debate but I do not hear any John Patitucci in Adam or Victor.

And yes I dig Patitucci's bass playing.

[capnsandwich]

I was listening to som Chick Corea a few days ago and I heard a semi-solo by John Patitucci and then I listened to some Bela Fleck after that and I could have sworn I heard some similarities in some of their slap and pluck techniques. It's just my opinion. But to add to that there's a song on one of Adam Nitti's solo albums with Adam and Vic both dueling it out and again, I heard some similarities. That's just what I heard. Who knows what all their actual influences are but I bet if you asked them John's name might pop up.

[lefty007]

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

I was listening to som Chick Corea a few days ago and I heard a semi-solo by John Patitucci and then I listened to some Bela Fleck after that and I could have sworn I heard some similarities in some of their slap and pluck techniques. It's just my opinion. But to add to that there's a song on one of Adam Nitti's solo albums with Adam and Vic both dueling it out and again, I heard some similarities. That's just what I heard. Who knows what all their actual influences are but I bet if you asked them John's name might pop up.

Sorry, but I don't hear it either, and I have pretty much ALL the recordings from ALL the players mentioned.

Patitucci's slap in very straight forward (when he used to do it; haven't heard him slap in decades). And his technique, well, he has no technique to speak of. If you see him play, you will notice he struggles with the instrument - he does not have a magic double-something technique. Also, his knowledge of music and compositional skills are really what makes him. His phrasing.

Just ranting. I'm a huge fan of Jonh and Vic, and I just never heard anything similar in them. Adam Nitti is a monster player with impeccable technique, but his composions are nowhere near Patitucci. Sure, some fast runs in the upper registers might sound familiar because of the range of the 6-string bass, and actually Nitti can eat Patitucci for lunch as far as technique and speed. But voicing, note choices and phrasing is what really defines a musicians, and Patitucci is very original in that aspect.

[capnsandwich]

Originally Posted by lefty007

Sorry, but I don't hear it either, and I have pretty much ALL the recordings from ALL the players mentioned.

Patitucci's slap in very straight forward (when he used to do it; haven't heard him slap in decades). And his technique, well, he has no technique to speak of. If you see him play, you will notice he struggles with the instrument - he does not have a magic double-something technique. Also, his knowledge of music and compositional skills are really what makes him. His phrasing.

Just ranting. I'm a huge fan of Jonh and Vic, and I just never heard anything similar in them. Adam Nitti is a monster player with impeccable technique, but his composions are nowhere near Patitucci. Sure, some fast runs in the upper registers might sound familiar because of the range of the 6-string bass, and actually Nitti can eat Patitucci for lunch as far as technique and speed. But voicing, note choices and phrasing is what really defines a musicians, and Patitucci is very original in that aspect.

Agree to diagree.
I'm gonna listen again and see if I hear it again or if I'm just getting old.

[lowerclef]

He's a monster musician.

Not always a fan of his electric playing - kind of hit or miss.
Upright stuff knocks me out every time, though!!! :-)

[Tom7]

I have all (if not most) of Chic Corea albums with Patitucci, and many of JP's solo albums. Likewise, I have both Flecktones and Victor Wooten albums, and Adam Nitti discs, and I have never made the connection -- but I don't doubt it. Patitucci has influenced pretty much all of us who play jazz bass I would think, especially with his work with Chic.

Patitucci, however, is very old school in right hand technique. His slapping, back when he did it, was nice, but definitely without double thumbs or pops, etc.

This is to be expected though, considering how much time he spends on an upright bass.

I've noticed that the VAST majority of players that go back and forth between an upright and electrics tend to play with the right hand techniques that work on BOTH instruments -- in other words they pluck like CRAZY with two fingers. That pretty much is it.

On the other hand, electric only players like Victor Wooten, Adam Nitti, Gary Willis have explored other ways of sounding notes on an electric bass -- ways that generally aren't practical on an upright bass ... such as tapping, double thumbing, double plucking, and banjo-style thumb and finger plucking.

Consequently, if Patitucci has been an influence on Wooten, Willis, Garrison or Nitti, we wouldn't hear it in their right hands, we would hear it in their approaches to soloing, their selection of notes under chords, etc.

Since all of them certainly listed to Patitucci's work with Chic, I'd say that John Patitucci must have influenced them.

In fact, who knows? It could well be that the reason Wooten, Nitti and Garrison play basses with a C string is so that they can solo in the range that they heard Patitucci do.

At any rate, John used to play a 6 string Smith when he played on an electric bass, unless he was slapping. When he slapped, it was on a Sadowsky 4. But when Patitucci got his own signature bass (Yamaha TRB-JP6), he gave up his Smith 6 and Sadowsky 4 basses, and gave up slapping at the same time as far as I can tell.

At any rate, in praise of Patitucci, I must confess that in addition to his and Chic's recordings, I have two Patitucci basses (one fretless). Then again, I also have Victor's Yin Yang Fodera 4 string bass, so what does that say?

Anyway, sorry for the long post.

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by Tom7

Since all of them certainly listed to Patitucci's work with Chic, I'd say that John Patitucci must have influenced them.

With all due respect how can you say this is in deed fact?

I usually listen to players for what not to play.

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

With all due respect how can you say this is in deed fact?

I usually listen to players for what not to play.

A fair question.

First, I have a video where Wooten says he listens to Chic Corea, so I'm sure he's influenced.

Second, and maybe I just think this because I've been remote from the rest of the world all my life and don't know any better, but I thought ALL jazz musicians listened to Chic Corea.

Now, a fair question to you: you listen to others for what NOT to play?! What do you hear from John Patitucci, Victor Wooten, Adam Nitti, Gary Willis, Matt Garrison, etc. that you do not want to play? I usually spend my whole time wish I could play like them!

[jerry]

Oh man, I'm missing something! The word "struggle" does not come to mind when I see Patitucci play electric. As a musician and writer he is always growing, his latest album 'Line By Line' is freakin beautiful!

[Lenart]

While I wouldn't want to guess how many people John influenced (in)directly, I found Janek Gwizdala's quote which might explain why some of you think you hear a lot of John's style in other guys' playing:

I have tried to never aspire to sound like another bass player in a soloistic sense. Any similarities you might associate with my playing and patitucci's will come from our shared love for the music of John Coltrane. We have both done extensive research and transcriptions of Trane's music and that comes out in our playing. Don't take my word for it, ask him yourself. Do you think I pull this crap out of the air? I signed my life over to playing this music. i work on this stuff every day that passes. I'm interested in other musicians, their views, their thoughts, their process. I just asked John one day what he had worked on as a younger musician. So please don't insult me by telling me what I have and haven't transcribed. You can come to New York, or catch me live somewhere wherever you live and take a look at my transcription books yourself. I always carry at least two on the road that I'm working on at any given time and I have dozens at home. not a single solo of John's anywhere.

[Baryonyx]

I much prefer to hear John on the electric bass, I like him on the DB but I just find him much more exciting to listen to on his 6 strings!

[KJung]

I'm most impressed with John's more recent solo work. Just like Richard Bona's solo CD's, you would not really know they are a 'bass' CD... just good music and playing.

I sure do prefer the tone he achieved early on with that Ken Smith. His electric tone is very thin and harsh to my ears now... but the notes just keep getting better. I really like that Brazilian-oriented disc he did a number of years back... beautiful grooves.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

John Patitucci to me is the father of modern jazz bassists. So many bassists copy his style and technique. Listen to Victor Wooten after you listen to John play. There's some notable resemblences. Even Adam Nitti has a little John in him.

Hmmm.........gotta lump Stanley Clarke, James Genus and Brian Bromberg in there. JP is a bad mofo but he ain't the Father, IMO.

I also don't see him struggling with his instrument. Admittedly, he was not a slapper when he first came onto the scene (by his own admission) and he worked very hard at getting decent at it. He's definitely better than average and has a very clean technique. No he doesn't have the slap 'tricks' going for him but that's not his bag!

[Baryonyx]

I'd certainly put Stan ahead of John in that repsect. But no mention of Jaco?

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by Tom7

A fair question.
First, I have a video where Wooten says he listens to Chic Corea, so I'm sure he's influenced.

Well if that is the case guess one could say that he's influenced by Stanley Clark(who he does acknowledge as an influence),Bunny Brunel and Carlos Benevente as well.

Originally Posted by Tom7

Now, a fair question to you: you listen to others for what NOT to play?! What do you hear from John Patitucci, Victor Wooten, Adam Nitti, Gary Willis, Matt Garrison, etc. that you do not want to play?

Well personally I've always been and continue to be inspired by individuality and more than any other aspect of my musicianship that is one of my main focuses.I think its much easier for the human brain to copy,emulate,clone,absorb,etc what has already been done,it does seem to make things a lot easier but in most cases it just comes down to creative laziness.I can listen to the players you mention and respect what they bring to the table but it's naturally not my thing to want to sound like them.

From my personal observations I have noticed that most musicians feel that because they are influenced/inspired by a particular musician that they should copy that musician,that's just never been my thing.I feel that all the time one spends copying that they could take a lot of that time developing their own voice and I'm sure most would say that to emulate is a method of developing individuality but I don't hear it.

One of the simplest things one can do to assist in not sounding like a clone is just play something and if you feel and can honestly say that you've heard it before just don't play it and don't spend a lot of time on it.