The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club Part 17

[PaladinofBass]

Quick question, how do I join a club on here, and how do I get a #number?
Ed

[neebs]

Originally Posted by MissingHighs

This is a very humble opinion; it does raise concern if you find "slamming down root notes" less than exciting. Is your focus maybe a little out of perspective? I can totally see where your WL is coming from. Root notes is where you should start and perfect them in the form of timing, nuance, tone, etc. Once you're totally comfortable with being able to lay down a solid, rhythmic foundation consisting of nothing more than well placed and timed root notes, then move on to being a bit more melodic. You'll find you will be playing less and worshipping more through this process (I suspect it's what the WL is trying to achieve).

As for listening to music, I find tracks of the music we play and play along to that; artists vary enormously.

M. <><

Definitely. She wants us to be connected, and she wants us to have it more of a spiritual thing going on, not technical. When I am doing more than just a root note I feel its more technical than spiritual. But my worship leader very much enjoys what I bring to the table, and I enjoy playing our music.

I should've worded that better, I mean the music is boring if both bassists are playing root notes. I very much enjoy playing root notes. But it is worshipping God, and I feel I should give him the best I am able to produce. And I use my discretion, where I fit into the mix. But it's usually a few notes higher than the other bassist or a few notes lower than the guitarist. We gotta work with what we got, its not like its the pastors previous church of several hundred members and get to choose the cream of the crop.

[capnsandwich]

Originally Posted by Jinro

I have a question for you P&W veterans out there: what should I do when the band departs from the leadsheets and improvises without warning? I had this happen tonight, the WL improvised lyrics for a song and the other singers, pianist, and drummer just kept on going, but me, not knowing that they were actually improvising and thinking that I missed something in the leadsheets, started frantically searching for the lyrics they were singing and ended up not playing for around 30 seconds to a minute because I had no idea what they were playing.

I've been in situations like this. There's usually a familiar chord progression or pattern to follow. I just follow that pattern and go with the flow as far as the dynamics go. Keep an eye on the WL for cues to slow down or change patterns. Remember, as a bassist and part of the rhythm section, you have a lot of control over the dynamics so it's important follow the flow. You'll feel it when it's time to change.

[caeman]

Originally Posted by PaladinofBass

Quick question, how do I join a club on here, and how do I get a #number?
Ed

It is simple. First, you have to be able to quote Psalm 33 from memory while standing on just your right leg, holding a brick in your left hand and wearing a beanie with propeller.



Then, the initiation begins.

[PaladinofBass]

Erm here I go (balances on one leg) "You are the LORD's people obey him and celebrate! He deserves your praise. Praise the LORD with harps! Use harps with ten strings to make music for him........ " (falls over and looks sheepish)

Can I have a number now?

[timmus]

Originally Posted by Fledge

But now, I'm having a deer in the headlights moment. The WL sent me the setlist for next week (..with no keys for the songs though :/) as my audition pieces, with the implication being that I be playing for our Tuesday night service even if I'm mediocre Friday.

One thing I learned early on when I started playing bass on a worship team is that I needed to be able change keys on the fly. The concept is quite simple…if you’ve been playing bass for even a short time, you’ll notice that there are “patterns” on the fret board (some people call them “blocks”) to certain chord progressions…even if the song you are practicing is in one key (say, C) and the WT is playing it in D, simply slide the whole pattern up two frets…voila! Now you’re in D….after a while it will become second nature. When you can do this without thinking, you can play any song you’ve already practiced in one key in any other key. Practice, practice, practice.

[timmus]

Originally Posted by Jinro

I have a question for you P&W veterans out there: what should I do when the band departs from the leadsheets and improvises without warning? I had this happen tonight, the WL improvised lyrics for a song and the other singers, pianist, and drummer just kept on going, but me, not knowing that they were actually improvising and thinking that I missed something in the leadsheets, started frantically searching for the lyrics they were singing and ended up not playing for around 30 seconds to a minute because I had no idea what they were playing.

I am so glad that in my musical formative years my music teacher encouraged me to listen to records and cassettes and try to improvise with them…it was dreadfully hard at first (I was playing trombone at the time) but I stuck with it…over time, you begin to hear nuances in the music that will hint of changes, whether they be chord changes or maybe timing changes, maybe a passing note or a certain chord that precedes a key change….years later I was able to transfer that to bass playing….I will still throw a CD on (although I do still have many of my records too) that I am not familiar with and improvise along with it…it gets easier as you practice it, but practicing is the key, developing an ear to detect those nuances.

[caeman]

Fledge, if those songs can be found on the internet, you should at least have that to prepare you. Maybe convert what you find to numbers and try them in different keys.

I still have problems trying to play by ear, despite two years of playing every weekend. I have this problem of being a 5th off.

[timmus]

Youtube is a goldmine for many, many CCM tunes...whenever the WT leader sends a list that has a new song on it, the first thing I do is check out Youtube. Many times, the tune is there...we usually won't do it like the band on YT is doing it but it will give me an idea of how the tune goes so it's not completely foreign to me when I get to WT practice.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by mtb777

Also, learn those songs and develop your ear to pick up the Key it's in. Watch the guitar player to see what chords he is playing and learn the chord shapes they are playing as well. Learn your note intervals and scale patterns.

Check with your guitar player before dropping in the habit of watching him for a root note, he may not be in standard tuning. Or in my case he is left handed and plays a standard tuned guitar flipped over so I can't see what he is doing with his bass strings anyway

[Jinro]

Thanks for the answers--I was kinda expecting something along those lines, but I'm in a situation where they don't really help. We have no guitar player at the moment and the pianist was at the extreme end of the stage, so I couldn't really take note of them, and even if I did I wouldn't be able to tell the chord progression from the pianist's melody (she likes to improvise a lot anyway). The drum pattern changed dramatically which is another thing that got me lost; it was one of those "sing-response" things.

As far as improvising on my part, I knew the song was in D, and I know all my chord tones and I know the minor perntatonic scale in every position on the neck, and I know that Bm is relative to D. So in theory I should be able to use those scales and chord tones, but I can't. Every lesson I've tried is good at teaching scales and tones, but NOBODY teaches how to actually apply the darn things to music.

Honestly I feel like the only thing I could have done was play D the entire time, which then would have gotten messed up by the drum pattern and probably would have sounded worse than just dropping out of the music.

[khutch]

Originally Posted by neebs

I should've worded that better, I mean the music is boring if both bassists are playing root notes.

Ah, that makes more sense. I was at a program of Handel and Haydn last Sunday evening and the orchestra was using two double basses. I could not watch them from the balcony where we were sitting but I presume they were both playing the same thing. That makes sense in an acoustic orchestra since the only way to make a given instrument's part louder to match the ensemble is to use more of them. There would seem to be no sense to having two electric bass players though, since one can simply crank up the volume as needed. This is not to say that there is anything fundamentally wrong with using two but since you are struggling with what to do I am guessing there is no need for two in your case and that is common. Two would be the exception, not the norm.

I think the best solution is to use only one. I'd consider taking alternate weeks. That way you each get some time off, you each can participate fully in the worship service as a member of the congregation half the time (which is as valuable musically as spiritually), and you each have twice the time to devote to personal practice for each performance. If you intend to do this for a long time you will eventually value time off as much as playing time. I'm tiring of singing in worship choir every week so I look forward to the summer when it is once or twice a month and I am glad that the bass playing, if it happens, will be only every third or fourth week. Or, if one of you plays a second instrument why not use that instead of two basses?

I am sure that two basses can work just fine but it will put a heavy burden on at least one of you to "compose" a second bass part and I think you are seeing that already. Who knows where that could lead? Maybe somewhere really special but be prepared, being a pioneer is a lot of hard work.

Ken

[mdjuszyn]

Originally Posted by timmus

there are “patterns” on the fret board (some people call them “blocks”) to certain chord progressions…even if the song you are practicing is in one key (say, C) and the WT is playing it in D, simply slide the whole pattern up two frets…voila! Now you’re in D….

One thing I do if I know a tune may be played in a couple different keys is to avoid learning it using open strings. That makes it easier for me to shift the pattern around the fretboard.....In fact, for the most part I tend to shy away from using open strings because of the difference in tone that they have....

[caeman]

I prefer to think of the open string as the zeroth fret. Just learn to put your finger on the nut. Voila. Now, go forth and use open strings.

[khutch]

Originally Posted by Versatek6

The gist of the original post was how closed off their musicians had become from each other. Can you even call it a team at that point?

I guess I was trying to emphasize that this is the key. Separate practices do not invariably lead to disunity. But if disunity exists separate practices can help perpetuate it and may have to be set aside for a while, I suppose.

Ken

[khutch]

Originally Posted by Fledge

But now, I'm having a deer in the headlights moment. The WL sent me the setlist for next week (..with no keys for the songs though :/) as my audition pieces,

...

Scary stuff, guys. I'm excited and terrified. Any advice is welcome.

Yeah, I know because I am another deer caught in another set of headlights! Be brave, trust God, and if He wants you there He will help you get there. If not, He has someplace better for you! I am considerably older than you, I suspect, and I am going through this for the second time in a year. Once with the choir and now with the worship band. I've been helping my wife with this too since she is starting to sing with a choir for the first time in her life. It can be humbling to see how large an effect your own modest efforts have on the congregation's worship experience and it is a blessing to just rehearse with a group whose hearts are in the same place.

Ken

[mkandolf]

Originally Posted by PaladinofBass

Erm here I go (balances on one leg) "You are the LORD's people obey him and celebrate! He deserves your praise. Praise the LORD with harps! Use harps with ten strings to make music for him........ " (falls over and looks sheepish)

Can I have a number now?

You didn't say which leg! I'll just trust it was the right one. you wouldn't lie on the P&W thread, would you?

Anyhow, welcome to the thread and have #1086!

Last ten #'s:

1077 cwmuller
1078 stuhammfan
1079 TodB
1080 pusangtaba2011
1081 velvet_u
1082 spindoc
1083 NoisyFroggy
1084 Crazy Climer
1085 MelodicExp
1086 PaladinofBass

[bassman314]

Originally Posted by caeman

I prefer to think of the open string as the zeroth fret. Just learn to put your finger on the nut. Voila. Now, go forth and use open strings.

My church frowns upon us placing our fingers on our nuts..

[JebDude]

Hey, Fledge! I totally understand that scary feeling of your first time with the group. But, you sound even more prepared than I was my first time. It was only 2 months after I bought my bass. I was still trying to figure out the fretboard. Still haven't practiced enough to be comfortable finding a note anywhere on the neck, but I have promised myself to practice some bass drills along with my Soprano Bass practice.

JB

[timmus]

Originally Posted by caeman

I prefer to think of the open string as the zeroth fret. Just learn to put your finger on the nut. Voila. Now, go forth and use open strings.

I too have always struggled with open strings....this is a great idea Chad! I'll have to give it a try tonight at WT practice. I'm sure it will be awkward at first but I can see where it could work...

I guess this is one reason I like playing a 5 string....move everything up to the 5th fret and strings that would normally be open can now be fretted.