The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club part 22

[jmclearnon]

i have played in corners like that and its very loud on stage. When it comes into IE systems it gets VERY expensive very quickly...

[nick98338]

AArrrrrrgggggghhh!!!! Another memorial service, this weekend. Lord... give us a break.

[Versatek6]

Originally Posted by mkandolf

Quick question for all here that went to using IE's from on stage monitors...

What were your start up costs moving to the system and what size was your team at the time?

I can give you a part-answer. We had an Aviom system spec'd for six users sharing four of the personal mixers, which came in at about $9000 when used with a digital mixer. Using an analog mixer would have increased the cost, but I don't recall how much.

[Samsound]

Originally Posted by mkandolf

Our church came up with this idea of turning our room around so the stage would go from where it is (in a nice rectangular alcove you might call it) to an opposite corner putting it also under an angled ceiling. Think of it as putting us in a big megaphone. Right now we have a low flat ceiling and flat walls on the sides that help keep the sound down and from spreading into the room. If we move to that corner, sound is likely to bounce all over from the stage.

Sound bouncing all over is more of a problem with your old, rectangular setup than with the new one. With parallel walls you get standing waves that create room modes at various frequencies, depending on the dimensions, treatment, furniture, and pink bodies. These frequencies will be banging loud in some spots and nonexistent in others. Non-parallel walls help alleviate standing waves, among other things. However, the benefits will be mostly centered on upper mid to high frequencies (directionality, reflectivity), since the actual shape of the room hasn't changed. In other words, your less (and non)-directional low frequencies will still be subject to the room shape and dimensions.

As for stage volume...if its a problem, simply turn down. Let the room and FOH do the work.

[5StringFool]

If you go with basic earbuds and the most basic Aviom setup you can get by with (an AN-16/i input module, A-16II mixers, and single driver earbuds) you can get by on about $4500. If you want the power distribution system instead of wall warts and dual driver buds you're looking at $6000 or so. That's assuming you buy the Aviom stuff new.

Our church went the first route to save cash and honestly the results were o.k., but I'd recommend getting better earbuds than the single drivers. The earbuds are definitely the limiting factor on how good an experience you'll have imo.


On a note from the last thread... we're doing a secular song as part of our worship set this week, Extreme's Hole Hearted, it went great in rehearsal and I'm pretty stoked about it. I love the song.

The other for this week are:

Our Great God
Love the Lord
Word of God Speak

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by 5StringFool

On a note from the last thread... we're doing a secular song as part of our worship set this week, Extreme's Hole Hearted, it went great in rehearsal and I'm pretty stoked about it. I love the song.

The other for this week are:

Our Great God
Love the Lord
Word of God Speak

That's exactly the sort of song I think can work in a church setting as the lyrics are so easily reinterpreted through a spiritual lens. And it's a great song. One of our guitarists occasionally plays through the intro and I can't get enough of it.

[5StringFool]

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

That's exactly the sort of song I think can work in a church setting as the lyrics are so easily reinterpreted through a spiritual lens. And it's a great song. One of our guitarists occasionally plays through the intro and I can't get enough of it.

It's one of my favorites, and after reading the lyrics (never paid much attention back in the day, I didn't examine them closely until last year) I really don't think they make any sense at all unless they're interpreted through a spiritual context of some sort... and being that Gary Cherone was raised Catholic (and from interviews still seems to be) I think he made spiritual references intentionally.

You also have Cherone's post Van Halen band Tribe of Judah, and the album Exit Elvis, which has a lot of Christian themes interspersed within the album. The guy definitely writes music that is influenced by his faith, but he isn't making P&W music. Here's a pretty interesting (imo) interview with the guy: God, Sex, and Politics: A Conversation With Gary Cherone of Extreme

Much of King's X's music is the same way, it simply doesn't make sense unless it's interpreted through a spiritual lens, and specifically the lens of a Christian context.

[invalidprotocol]

Originally Posted by nick98338

AArrrrrrgggggghhh!!!! Another memorial service, this weekend. Lord... give us a break.

What kind of memorial service?

[invalidprotocol]

I'll be playing for a night of worship at another church in a couple weeks. Just got the list of songs... Freedom Reigns is a new one for me.

Freedom Reigns
Kingdom Come
Furious
You Are Good
Inside Out
Be Lifted High
Our Father
You Are Holy
Forever Reign
Great I Am
The Stand
Our God
Glorious
Happy Day
Jesus Is The Lord
You Hold Me Now
The More I Seek You

[SBsoundguy]

So i'm learning some new material and one thing that really peeves me is trying to learn a song in a key other than the original. How am I supposed to learn and play along with anything on my own?

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by SBsoundguy

So i'm learning some new material and one thing that really peeves me is trying to learn a song in a key other than the original. How am I supposed to learn and play along with anything on my own?

Start by learning the song in the original key. Do what my teachers always advised, and avoid using open strings as much as possible, for a more even tone.

As you learn the part, listen and think about the intervals between the chords. For example C. F and G is a standard 3-chord trick:
- root, four and five in terms of the notes of the scale
- up one string for the F, and then up two frets for the G, in terms of fretboard position.
- up a fourth, and then up another major second, in terms of pitch intervals.

If you can learn a song off YouTube, you must already be doing this to a certain extent, at least subconsciously. Think not? You can can whistle that interval progression while listening to Hang on Sloopy, Pharoah Pharoah, or any one of a thousand other 3-chord trick songs, right?

Those relationships never change- they just move up and down the fretboard to match the key you're in. Otherwise, a capo wouldn't work!

So now start moving that fretboard shape around. Don't worry about fancy crap like major/minor chords, 6th's, 7th's and 9th's- that's for guitarists, at least for now. Just listen to the root movement- C, F, and G, one, four and five. Saying the note names out loud while practicing, helps to rut it in.

Going up:
- the same thing two frets up, puts you in D major.a major second interval)
- three frets up is Eb (a minor third)

if it starts getting too high-pitched, try going down:
- Down one Fret is B major: (a minor second)
- two frets is Bb: (a major second)
- Down one string is G major: two strings (if you have a five string) is D major.

You now know the song is six keys!

So now start learning to visualize any key change as an interval leap: C to D is a major second (up two frets or down one string); C to Eb is a minor third (up three frets, or down one string AND up on fret)...

Suddenly, key changes on a standard 3-chord trick are no big deal- you can hear the sound of one-four-five in your head, and you can see it as a fingerboard pattern up and down the fingerboard and across the strings.

Now add 3 more chords to your 3-chord trick:
- Dm is up two frets from the C (a major second)
- Am is down three frets, or down a string AND up two frets. (a minor third)
- E is up two frets, or up one string AND down one fret, or down one string AND three frets. (a major third)

With those six chords (root, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 if you think about them as scale tones), you can play 90% of modern praise (or secular pop) music.

Get these simple concepts into you ear and under your fingers, and you'll never sweat it over key changes again. Best of all, you don't have to learn it all at once- each step forward you make, will improve your fingerboard knowledge, train your ear, and reduce stress when you're on the platform.

This basic chord theory lesson brought to you courtesy of the so-called Nashville number system.

[Jhengsman]

There are the Tascam trainers and key shifting software. However you can learn the pattern and then shift your starting point. Unless there is some sigature lick that requires an open string it works. In anycase prepare to shift up an octave or modulate up a half and full step for dynamic effect even if your church performs in the same key as the iconic recording of a particular song.

[SBsoundguy]

Thanks for the tips guys. I appreciate it.

[SoVeryTired]

Many small annoyances, inconveniences and distractions today but we pulled through. Bizarrely, it was probably one of my best sets on bass, despite me really not being well. Maybe it's because I handed over MD responsibilities and could just concentrate on one thing (I've got a hint of a croak instead of a voice today, so trying to communicate instructions wouldn't have worked very well!).

[steve_rolfeca]

Interesting set at church this morning.

I was already behind the 8-ball anyway, as I had to miss Thursday night rehearsal because of work.

Timing issues and and a couple of interestingly-placed shots complicated matters during our quick run-through and sound check...

...and then my amp quit abruptly, a couple of minutes before the service. We're trying to sort out our sound in our new venue (High School auditorium with a wicked echo), and I wasn't in the sound system, so there was a bit of a scramble for a DI and a quick rebalance in the floor wedges and FOH.

God moved as he often does, and despite all the distractions, I played better than I have in quite a while, and the band overall sounded very good.

Tech sidenote: The problem turned out to be poorly dressed connections, and loose setscrews, in a store-bought Speakon cable. Note to self- have to add a spare speaker cable to my gig bag...

[english4bw]

Originally Posted by SBsoundguy

So i'm learning some new material and one thing that really peeves me is trying to learn a song in a key other than the original. How am I supposed to learn and play along with anything on my own?

First thing I do when my WL or MD chart songs in keys different from the original is to transfer them straight into numeric notation.

Here's an example... we did the song, "Saviour" a few weeks ago in a higher key than the original song. So I just numerically transposed the chart and changed the root note position on the fretboard.



As for practicing along with the original, I just practice the song in the normal key to get to know the song, then switch root position when we rehearse/perform in the different key. Simple as pie.

[mkandolf]

Ok, so I show up Sunday morning for prayer before practice before worship service. I've got to get a smallish Christmas tree out of the storage garage/shed for my wife for the Angel Tree ministry. Long story short I've got a gash on my left arm from digging for it. I'm not a happy camper. WL has fun taking a picture of me next to the tree with 'that' look on my face.

We have our social/prayer hour time, then get to practice. Then we've got a problem. Our worship leader can't hold his voice together. He tries lots of water, some strange concoction someone comes up with. He tries calling up the one girl that leads about one Sunday a month but she can't make it in time. We're 20 minutes from the start of service.

Then he turned toward me. Uh, say WHAT?!? Uh, a couple of the songs I don't know the words that well because I have too much fun with the bass lines while you're singing, two are at the upper limits of my range, one is brand new... HELP!!! Ran trhough the songs really quick.

We substituted the closing song for the gathering song, cut two of four from the worship set one was transposed on the fly (which I originally started playing in the wrong key!), used the closer again for offertory and the pastor closed the service in prayer. Second service we did use the original gathering song and managed to lower another song to get it more in my range.

Could feel my voice was really tight during the first service, but the second service went a lot smoother. I could really feel a calm though as I was up there singing.

Went around hugging the team afterwards (and I hate hugs) thanking them profusely for being able to follow me. I sing the songs a bit differently than our WL.

Always wanted to take the lead, just never wanted to get thrown into it like this!

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by mkandolf

Then he turned toward me. Uh, say WHAT?!? Uh, a couple of the songs I don't know the words that well because I have too much fun with the bass lines while you're singing......

Always wanted to take the lead, just never wanted to get thrown into it like this!

In all the bands I was in a always played guitar and sang lead until I started playing bass. So I can sing but playing bass and singing is totally hard for me...ive been playing bass for years and years but the basslines i play is nothing like playing guitar and singing. Isn't that odd?? Anyway... since then never sang lead again. Would like to .....but it ain't happening while I'm on bass. one or the other suffers. To get thrown in at the last moment would have been a nightmare. Glad to hear you made it through unscathed except the gash on the arm.

[mdjuszyn]

Originally Posted by Versatek6

...an Aviom system spec'd for six users sharing four of the personal mixers, which came in at about $9000 when used with a digital mixer......

And I get nervous hoping my $60 purchase order for new mic cables gets approved. Some of you out there are very fortunate.....

[mdjuszyn]

And in the spirit of tough starts to the morning- we rehearsed the wrong set list for Sunday. Pastor announces the opening song and we all say in unison "uhhhh....that's not it....." and we were the one's that were wrong. Pastor gave us the death stare.... Quick 5 minute timeout to reload the slides for the songs we prepared and we were off and running. Thank God we sounded good this week.