The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club part 22

[khutch]

Originally Posted by Mr L

Re-reading that post i came off much harsher than i had planned, i didn't mean to say there is nothing i could learn from them as there is always more to learn and they are very prestigious technical musicians (they all have degrees in music theory and the like) and i respect their experience but me being the youngest of the group at 18 and them all in their 30s and 40s and i just feel as though i am being seen as some beginner who needs to be spoon fed, which is frustrating.

I really do enjoy playing with them, when we are playing, it's the things that happen when the music stops that erk me.

Well, if you are 18 and many of them have music degrees they are probably just playing professor on you. I suspect they all mean well. A good, experienced professor notes where the student is and adjusts the teaching to suit. An amateur professor doesn't have the experience to do that and spends too much time covering material the student already knows. Or maybe you are not engaging them in a way that lets them know how much you already know. I think you have an excellent opportunity to learn some theory from good musicians and I would encourage you to take advantage of it. I think if you work at it you can adjust their teaching style to meet you where you are. Keep in mind that even though you know what an arpeggio, for example, is you may not understand some fine point or another that they are trying to teach you.

Ken

[bass.strings]

Cam I get a number?

[MissingHighs]

@Mr.L,

Firstly, welcome brother. What you may have already noticed is you are allowed to rant here; we take no offence (unless ranting AT one of us!). We understand we're human, and then we see the love of our brothers and sisters bringing us back to a point of humble servantship.

I feel you pain; and I'm 51! (guys, the following is a very general comment, so don't jump down my throat) - There is a type of 'snootiness' that surrounds those who are formally trained over those who have wood-shedded their way to a decent level of proficiency. Not all, mind you, but I suffer it a lot as well. About half our team are formally trained, yet they are the ones who can not divert from what is written (they only play the little black dots on the lines, nothing more or less). Despite their training, they each share a common fault..... their timing sucks!

Next time this happens to you, ask them "thank you for being willing to teach me. However, there must be something about my playing that is causing you to give me this advice; what is it, specifically? I ask as that is actually the problem and having that pointed out would benefit me more"

(I have a suspicion I've repeated, just in a different way, what Ken has said in his last line).

Also, slip in an MP3 recorder - no-one must know it's there - and record yourself. You may hear your own mistakes! It's the harshest teacher, but it doesn't ever shout at you, or say nasty things.

God's richest blessings, and go out there and be a blessing to others this week.

[jmclearnon]

Ahhh it's the usual syndrome of people who are classically trained not practising with a metronome. Or practising counting exercises.

[SoVeryTired]

Welcome Mr L!

It could be that the older guys see a young guy on the team and think, "Aha! A chance to pass on my wisdom and help the younger generation", without being aware of your existing knowledge. I'd say engage them in conversation, so if someone talks about arpeggios you can nod in agreement and talk about songs where you find they really work as part of the bassline, and drop in some more advanced theory into the conversation so they know where you're at.

Or it could be that they're trying to gently point something out in your playing, which they've learned through years of experience, but they're not being direct enough. Either way, just engage in the conversation. They'll soon see that you know what you're talking about and if there's some helpful advice they can give, they know they can be more direct.

[SoVeryTired]

Thinking more generally...

Formal training is great if it doesn't become a straitjacket. In our band it's the keys players who have the classical background (two of the three having music degrees). For one of them, joining the team was a bit of a shock, having not played in a band before and not having sheet music to work from. She's adapted though. The others have the knowledge but it's no restriction as they also have plenty of experience playing by ear.

I'm the other extreme - I haven't studied music since GCSE level (aged 16) and stopped reading it when I left school at 18. I've always operated by ear in church, first on wind instruments (so I can only properly read treble clef) and then on guitar and finally bass. I think I'm pretty good at playing by ear, thinking on my feet and transposing quickly. But I lack some of the correct terminology and theoretical background. This year one of my goals is to take and pass my Grade 5 theory exam - I've ordered the books and am doing some background study. I like to stretch my knowledge.

[jmclearnon]

Go for it! Grade 5 theory is really useful! I was thinking about looking at my books again and possibly going up to grade 8 theory, it does chance a bit tho in the higher grades but meh, i think it would be interesting!

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by Mr L

... they are very prestigious technical musicians (they all have degrees in music theory and the like) and i respect their experience but me being the youngest of the group at 18 and them all in their 30s and 40s and i just feel as though i am being seen as some beginner who needs to be spoon fed, which is frustrating.

Perspective is everything, I guess. When I was 18, I was still in the first year of a college jazz program, and had only been gigging out for 2 years. Most of the time, I really WAS the beginner who needed to be spoon-fed. At the time, I felt grateful to be playing a lot of my gigs with old pros in their 50's, who were willing to show me the ropes.

As my mother tells me (she's 88), as you get older, you get talkative. Maybe your WL and bandmates don't mean anything by all the blithering, and are just reliving former glories. Or maybe they're hoping to be helpful.

As others have suggested, I would carefully mention it at a band meeting, and try to clear the air.

[caeman]

I'm on bass tonight, instead of drum set. A refreshing change of routine at the Synagogue. 52 Fridays a year I will be on drum set, normally.

[caeman]

I should also mention that I begin a new direction to my traveling music ministry: fiddle. Monday, I will be attending the band practice at the Harvest Ranch Cowboy Church with the idea of joining their team with my fiddle. Their services are Tuesday nights.

[TjerkBerg]

Hi everyone,

I am new here and I want to join the Christian Praise and Worship Band Club. How does it work?

Thanks.

[caeman]

Originally Posted by TjerkBerg

Hi everyone,

I am new here and I want to join the Christian Praise and Worship Band Club. How does it work?

Thanks.

It's easy. You need to learn the secret hand shake, then recite Psalm 101 from memory while juggling 3 fine china plates and you are in.

[mkandolf]

... and don't forget posting a video showing yourself playing "Salvation Is Here" with eyes closed or looking heavenward!

Welcome new members MrL, bass.strings, and TjerkBerg! Your numbers are as follows:

1178 MrL
1179 bass.strings
1180 TjerkBerg

Last 10 #'s added to the list:

1171 slappa_dat_bass
1172 skamaniac
1173 mizedog
1174 theLimeyBrit
1175 kbaxter26
1176 BlueLine1
1177 mrclavet
1178 MrL
1179 bass.strings
1180 TjerkBerg

[MissingHighs]

Originally Posted by jmclearnon

Ahhh it's the usual syndrome of people who are classically trained not practising with a metronome. Or practising counting exercises.

Hello, welcome back!

Ah, yes, trying to get them to understand to really get timing under one's belt means not counting 1-2-3-4. I've got this invisible drummer in my head tapping 16ths on a tightly closed hi-hat. Even still, I'd probably fluff Salvation Is Here (which is why I've never asked for a number , being dyslexic I want one that I can read in both directions, my next chance is when we get close to 1221... not long now

[khutch]

The need for theory depends on what you hope to do. There are obviously musical professions where the formal training and a degree are prerequisites for admission. On the other hand in the popular music genres (and I would suppose that church musicians fall into that sphere) it is entirely possible to perform at the highest level with no theory at all. You can learn songs by ear and if you have the gift the act of doing that time after time after time allows you to internalize the work of other musicians and then reuse that in your own "compositions". And of course since we are seldom given written out parts to play and not all of us read music anyway, we are routinely called on to compose our own bass parts. Those who intend to do a lot of composing are well advised to master musical theory and I suppose those who know it well are naturally tempted to try to encourage an 18 year old colleague to take it up.

Ken

[Mr L]

Thank you all for your ibput, I will have to have a talk next practice.

As for learning music as in a school occupation. Taking lessons and such is what turned me away from guitar. I was treating it more like work and not at all like a passion. I have learned a great deal of theory alone on my own, to the point I feel comfortable. Although I seem to see a trend with many people who are formally trained, they have no feeling for the music and only see what's written in the lines, cant get out of the box if you will.

I find I learn much faster and easier when I'm the one deciding what I wish to learn. RProbably comes from being homeschooled till grade 10.

I think I need to check my attitude towards them as I have come to a point of ignoring what they have to say almost entirely, when they could teach me a great deal.

[invalidprotocol]

For timing just listen to the congregational hand clapping!

[invalidprotocol]

Woohoo! Finally some new music!! Learning these for Sunday...

Be Lifted Higher - Gateway
God And King - Gateway

[a2zbassman]

^ ^

[caeman]

Originally Posted by invalidprotocol

For timing just listen to the congregational hand clapping!

Not the congregations that *I* play in. I often wonder what song certain people are listening to while the band plays, because they ain't clapping anywhere near the beat.