The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club part 22

[mkandolf]

Originally Posted by invalidprotocol

For timing just listen to the congregational hand clapping!

Nnnnoooooooooo!!!!!!! (Especially in one Baptist church I used to attend!)

[MissingHighs]

Originally Posted by invalidprotocol

For timing just listen to the congregational hand clapping!

So *that* is what the problem is; ours don't clap But, that is likely to take more effort to have happen than it is getting the keys' left hands hacked off... :sigh:

[Versatek6]

Originally Posted by Mr L

As for learning music as in a school occupation. Taking lessons and such is what turned me away from guitar. I was treating it more like work and not at all like a passion. I have learned a great deal of theory alone on my own, to the point I feel comfortable.

I understand just what you are saying about lessons. I started teaching myself guitar in about 4th grade ('72). When my parents saw I was sticking with it, they got a teacher. That almost did me in, so lessons stopped. I really wanted to play in the school band, so I did stick with 'bone lessons. I started playing guitar with an originals band 12 years ago and found myself out of ideas. I found a good teacher who filled in a lot of gaps over a three-month period. I am thinking that I may do the same for my bass-playing this summer. Taking lessons on your terms with your goals is very different.

Although I seem to see a trend with many people who are formally trained, they have no feeling for the music and only see what's written in the lines, cant get out of the box if you will.

Big agreement here. Technical proficiency does not equal musicality. That is something I have been trying to help my son understand - that there is a difference between playing notes and playing music.

I think I need to check my attitude towards them as I have come to a point of ignoring what they have to say almost entirely, when they could teach me a great deal.

Even advice with the best intent can get to be too much when it is coming fast from all directions.

Have you ever sat down together and just played music? Not to rehearse, but just to play to get comfortable being a band. Do "C Jam Blues," or something similar where you can trade 8s for a few changes.

Good Luck!

[english4bw]

Originally Posted by Mr L

Re-reading that post i came off much harsher than i had planned, i didn't mean to say there is nothing i could learn from them as there is always more to learn and they are very prestigious technical musicians (they all have degrees in music theory and the like) and i respect their experience but me being the youngest of the group at 18 and them all in their 30s and 40s and i just feel as though i am being seen as some beginner who needs to be spoon fed, which is frustrating.

I really do enjoy playing with them, when we are playing, it's the things that happen when the music stops that erk me.

I can understand why you would feel this way. As a secular rock/metal musician for 20 years before I stepped onto the Worship stage, I went through a similar experience. Although I was much older than you (38) when I started playing in churches, I also came from a self-taught history with both guitar and bass.

In my case, I was (and still am) surrounded by Hillsong alumni, all of whom are classically trained musicians AND trained worship leaders to boot. Their ideas, criticisms, and passion were actually very confusing to me at the beginning. I felt like an outsider, and nearly walked out on many ocassions in the early days of playing on the Worship team.

but then I remembered WHERE I was...

I was in the HOUSE OF GOD.

It's not about ME there. It's about HIM.

and my Pastor (former Hillsong main-stage singer) taught me a great lesson from scripture.

"God resists the proud, but gives favour (grace) to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5

When you get stuck in a place of pride (or if others on the team do) then you CANNOT worship together correctly. Worship comes from a place of true submission and humility. UNITY in a worship band is key. Any ill-will and/or offence should be dealt with BEFORE you begin any rehearsal or perfomance. BE HONEST. TALK to the people you have issues with. Then resolve the situation, and forgive one another. The only other obligation we have after that as musicians is to bring EXCELLENCE to the platform (practice, tone, ability, knowledge).

Regardless of how others are acting, speaking, treating us... we must remain free of our own sense of pride. It literally BLOCKS our ability to be in the presence of God. I had to quit playing guitar because I could not get over the prideful identity I had conditioned into myself over the years with that instrument. I would rather NOT be playing worship than to do it in a spirit of pride or anger or bad attitude.

Next time someone says something to you, or "tells" you how to play something. Try just doing it, and/or agreeing with them. Then play the part as they suggest in your own way. It doesn't have to be challenging to your identity as a bassist. After all... you are original, authentic, wholly created and gifted by God, and nobody can take that away from you, ever. Just imagine next time one of your leaders or elders "tells" you something, that it's Jesus asking you to do it. What would you say if He was telling you? How would you feel if God was requesting it?

So... try to ignore the human attitudes around you (they're inescapable, wherever you go, you can't avoid them), and concentrate on just being the best bass player that you can be for GOD. If that means going back and learning/taking lessons even... swallow your pride and DO IT. I did. I still take lessons to this day. There's nothing to fear or be challenged by. We're all in this together.

"How good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity!
For there the Lord bestows his blessing, even life forevermore." - Psalm 133

And just remember... playing in church is completely the opposite of playing in a secular band/doing gigs. Then it IS all about you. Keep that perspective and you'll be fine.

Blessings to you, and I hope you get to a good place with your role in the church band. It's the best thing in the world once you find your "peace".

[MissingHighs]

Originally Posted by Versatek6

Big agreement here. Technical proficiency does not equal musicality... - that there is a difference between playing notes and playing music.

Remembering it was said "there is a trend" as I have seen some who are both technically proficient and display unbelievable musicality. But, why does it have to be so rare!?

[great bleudini]

First off, I'd like to say I am grateful for a place where I can blow some steam off once in a while and also read about what other musicians face on thier teams. It gives me a sense of perspective and lets me know in the big picture my little gripes aren't the end of the world....

however.....

When I started on the team rehearsal at 6:30 meant everybody was present, tuned, and ready to play at 6:30. During the last year or so I can show up at 6:30 watch the MD select and print music, fiddle with backing tracks, and set up and tune. The sound man will turn everything on and test it as though it's the first time he's ever dealt with that setup. How many bugs do we have to work out of a system that remains the same week to week? By the time everybody is ready at least half an hour is gone. I rush home after work to hork some food down in five minutes and rush to church with my bass to make it on time.

I am beginning to get a bit resentful. I've tried bringing it up gently with no results. The other team members work too so I understand they don't have all day to set things up early, but I can't help but feel I could be doing something else while waiting on everybody to get thier act together. Should I just download angry birds and chill? I try to treat my role on the team professionally. Where I work the saying is "if you are on time you are fifteen minutes late."

Thanks for listening to my rant..any insights are welcome.

[throughthefire]

Originally Posted by invalidprotocol

For timing just listen to the congregational hand clapping!

What about congregants who bring their own tamborine (with tassles), but play to a completely different rhythm?

(Yes, it has happened to us...)

[TjerkBerg]

I recognise your feeling Great Bleudini. In my band not everyone is as driven as I am. Not only in starting time but also in at home practice the parts we need to reherse and issues like that. But that is a fact I can not change easy. Sometimes I think that this is a challenge for me to deal with. If I can stop being frustrated about these things and find peace in the way it goes, then see what happens. Gods ways are often not our ways.....

It is a bit like english4bw posted today.

It's not about ME there. It's about HIM.

PS: I am not a native english speaker. (I am from the Netherlands) So maybe I do not use the best words. But it is the message that counts.

By the way: Are there more Dutch memebers in the club?

[SoCalBassman]

Originally Posted by BlueLine1

Hope you get to feeling better, SoCal....
Alan

I'm feeling much better, thanks.

The WL recorded the new songs at rehearsal last night and emailed them to me along with the chordcharts so I'm on for Sunday. Love it!!

[SoCalBassman]

Originally Posted by TjerkBerg

In my band not everyone is as driven as I am. Not only in starting time but also in at home practice the parts we need to reherse and issues like that. But that is a fact I can not change easy. Sometimes I think that this is a challenge for me to deal with. If I can stop being frustrated about these things and find peace in the way it goes, then see what happens. Gods ways are often not our ways.....

In a previous worship team I was on some of the players would come to rehearsals un-prepaired by not practicing or familiarizing themselves with the music beforehand. It made for some very long practices.

Because I always prepared and made sure I knew the music beforehand this did bother me at first. What I learned to do was make sure I did my part to play the best I could and set a good example for the others. It worked with some of them but not all.

Something else I realized was that if they were lacking a little we could work through it but if the bass was not there the whole song would fail.

[throughthefire]

Originally Posted by SoCalBassman

In a previous worship team I was on some of the players would come to rehearsals un-prepaired by not practicing or familiarizing themselves with the music beforehand. It made for some very long practices.

Because we lost our drummer just before Christmas (well, he's in a truck somewhere in the US, not really *lost* as such...), we've had a few stand-ins recently.

Each of them has been amazed at how quickly we get through practicing. We start at 7pm, and aim to be on our way home at 8pm; it's rare that we aren't. We do that because we all practice at home, so the only things to be rehearsed are a run-through of every song, a few vocal harmony run-throughs, and making sure we nail the beginning and ending of each song. Practicing and noodling are frowned upon in reheasal...

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by throughthefire

What about congregants who bring their own tamborine (with tassles), but play to a completely different rhythm?

(Yes, it has happened to us...)

That's what tazers are for.

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by TjerkBerg

I recognise your feeling Great Bleudini. In my band not everyone is as driven as I am. Not only in starting time but also in at home practice the parts we need to reherse and issues like that. But that is a fact I can not change easy. Sometimes I think that this is a challenge for me to deal with. If I can stop being frustrated about these things and find peace in the way it goes, then see what happens. Gods ways are often not our ways.....

It is a bit like english4bw posted today.



PS: I am not a native english speaker. (I am from the Netherlands) So maybe I do not use the best words. But it is the message that counts.

By the way: Are there more Dutch memebers in the club?

When there are inconsistent levels of preparation and punctuality it's a leadership issue. Either the person in charge does something about it or the problem continues. As MD I make sure that everyone comes to Thursday rehearsal knowing which songs we're doing in which key at what tempo and which arrangement. If someone hasn't practiced it stands out and they're usually embarrassed enough to apologise and not do it again. Where the leader isn't bothered all you can do is set an example.

(Your English is perfect, as with most Dutch people I've met - significantly better than my Dutch.)

[Dan Knowlton]

Originally Posted by invalidprotocol

For timing just listen to the congregational hand clapping!

Not in the churches I play at!!!!!!! And they usually have "white people disease" and are forced to clap on 1&3!

And yes, I am REALLY white - like I was bleached, and then kept in the dark, and just experienced an emotional shock...

With pop music for the past 50 years being driven by the backbeat, I just don't get it.

Dan K.

[BlueLine1]

Finally a Supporting Member, now you can see my axe.
Alan

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by throughthefire

What about congregants who bring their own tamborine (with tassles), but play to a completely different rhythm?

(Yes, it has happened to us...)

We have them too. Along with the noise sometimes the flags come out and since it has been a few years since high school drill team for many of the sisters we get a visual cue which may throw us off. I just remember we play for them, it is part of the joyful noise. The symphony quiet is for the church down the street

[rotis]

Originally Posted by Jhengsman

We have them too. Along with the noise sometimes the flags come out and since it has been a few years since high school drill team for many of the sisters we get a visual cue which may throw us off. I just remember we play for them, it is part of the joyful noise. The symphony quiet is for the church down the street

We don't allow tambourines or shofars for that matter. If you want to play an instrument, try out for the worship team. We allow flags, but you have to use them in the back and for some folks only feel called to do that in the front.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by MissingHighs

Remembering it was said "there is a trend" as I have seen some who are both technically proficient and display unbelievable musicality. But, why does it have to be so rare!?

That depends on where you hang.

There are whole sectors of this industry where musicality AND technical proficiency are far from rare. In fact, those qualities are literally taken for granted. Guys who work in those areas tend to live in a bubble, assuming that all decent musicians are as skilled as they are.

That's no different than the bass player who meets yet another poorly-trained church pianist, and imagines that classically-trained pianists all stink because of their "formal training".

If formal training holds musicians back, how do you explain "over educated" pioneers like Dave Brubeck, Keith Emerson, Bill Evans, Jan Hammer, and Rick Wakeman?

We've all met the over-opinionated kid from a small college who thinks he knows everything, when in fact he can't hold a tune in a paper bag. That's not an indictment of formal education: It's nothing more than an illustration of pride and youthful inexperience.

I know, because I've been that kid, many times over.

[MissingHighs]

Originally Posted by TjerkBerg

By the way: Are there more Dutch memebers in the club?

Mijn vrou is Nederlands, ik ben Zuid Afrikaans (we spreek 'Nederkaans' in onze huis!).

(my wife is Dutch, I'm South African, we speak 'Nederkaans' in our house)

[PilbaraBass]

Originally Posted by Dan Knowlton

Not in the churches I play at!!!!!!! And they usually have "white people disease" and are forced to clap on 1&3!

And yes, I am REALLY white - like I was bleached, and then kept in the dark, and just experienced an emotional shock...

With pop music for the past 50 years being driven by the backbeat, I just don't get it.

Dan K.

Hey that's pretty racist. Black people clap on 1 & 3, too, sometimes...


It's called. "Reggae"...