The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club part 23

[mkandolf]

Welcome new memebers sasred and tbplayer2 to the thread! Here are your numbers:

1188 sasred
1189 tbplayer2

last 10 #'s added here:

1180 TjerkBerg
1181 kevbethphx
1182 3mrhythm
1183 Skeeter1
1184 coyoteboy
1185 Sethbass
1186 jesusrocksbass
1187 vinnie6
1188 sasred
1189 tbplayer2

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by Sethbass

...We have IEM system but there is no depth or feel so I end up playing so hard my fingers actually blister..after 20 years!! Playin P&W for 25 minutes my fingers should not be blistered!!!

Dude, never let gear shortcomings or goofy FOH decisions put you in physical pain!

Hustle thyself to the nearest music shop, and buy a cheap mini-mixer (I like the Behringer Xenyx 502/802, and the Mackie 402 VLZ-3). Run a 1/4" cable from the thru jack on your DI, up to the mixer. Plug the IEM feed the church gives you into another input.

Bingo! Tone control on both the house IEM mix and the "more me" feed from your DI, plus panning to help you separate yourself from the rest of the band.

No more finger pain, for less than $100...

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

Ah, then I don't play bass unless I remove a string...

Well to be fair he said it in the 70s before many had an extended range bass. Except for his piccolo bass

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by Sethbass

I guess I haven't been clear on my situation. But let me preface this by saying I don't church hop around looking to just get my ear tickled! I am 39 and have had three home churches in my entire life, the first one I spent 27 years under one pastor!!! The 2nd one for 10 years and I left because in my time there, they went through 3 pastors. It had great and diverse worship because we had a hispanic husband and wife worship leader... We played everything!!! From Hillsong, Hosanna to kirk franklin!

Now, in my currrent situation, there are various other reasons that I am struggling here but since this is a bass forum i thought I'd stick to that! Let's just take yesterday for example... Now keep in mind this church pays a sound tech and the worship leader... They provide replacement strings and parts for the musicians and instruments and take care of the bgv in other means... So they mean (meant) business! But, about two months ago the Pastor limited the P&W service to just 25 minutes and said that we need to stop performing??? Whaaaa??? Performing??? Now, i have been playing in Church for 20 years!! I have NEVER been accussed of performing... We all worship with our hearts out!!! That is first, now yesterday he told the soundman to turn the bass down! They pay a soundman to mix... He is very experienced and a pro!! The bass was turned down so low, it could not even be mixed... He doesn't allow amps on stage! So i have no options... We have IEM system but there is no depth or feel so I end up playing so hard my fingers actually blister..after 20 years!! Playin P&W for 25 minutes my fingers should not be blistered!!!

At at face value, it sounds like this pastor wants things "his way." At a quicker re-read, it seems like there are deeper issues with that pastor than gear or sound mixing.

Those who've suggested get or build your own mixable IEM are only addressing a symptom of a much more major underlying issue.

I too have ran into the issue of playing overly aggressive because of having to deal with a church-mouse volume. (pun not intended.) It's not fun.

If I get accused of being on a P+W team to showboat or being in it for my own devices, the accuser, whether a congregant or a pastor, had better have their Bible open and be ready to justify their opinion.

My advice to you is to commit your situation to prayer. As I've indicated, there is something that goes far beyond the mix and volume in the works at that church.

[msaone]

I miss it, played in a very cool praise and worship group for ten years. Great keyboard and guitar player, lots of fun.

Keyboardist left and ended up taking over the group. I finally left when one of the girl singers went off the deep end.

There's only one Jesus at my church and she isn't him.

[TodB]

Originally Posted by Sethbass

I guess I haven't been clear on my situation. But let me preface this by saying I don't church hop around looking to just get my ear tickled! I am 39 and have had three home churches in my entire life, the first one I spent 27 years under one pastor!!! The 2nd one for 10 years and I left because in my time there, they went through 3 pastors. It had great and diverse worship because we had a hispanic husband and wife worship leader... We played everything!!! From Hillsong, Hosanna to kirk franklin!

Now, in my currrent situation, there are various other reasons that I am struggling here but since this is a bass forum i thought I'd stick to that! Let's just take yesterday for example... Now keep in mind this church pays a sound tech and the worship leader... They provide replacement strings and parts for the musicians and instruments and take care of the bgv in other means... So they mean (meant) business! But, about two months ago the Pastor limited the P&W service to just 25 minutes and said that we need to stop performing??? Whaaaa??? Performing??? Now, i have been playing in Church for 20 years!! I have NEVER been accussed of performing... We all worship with our hearts out!!! That is first, now yesterday he told the soundman to turn the bass down! They pay a soundman to mix... He is very experienced and a pro!! The bass was turned down so low, it could not even be mixed... He doesn't allow amps on stage! So i have no options... We have IEM system but there is no depth or feel so I end up playing so hard my fingers actually blister..after 20 years!! Playin P&W for 25 minutes my fingers should not be blistered!!!

If it's just a matter of levels in the IEMs then the "more me" mixer is a great solution and very cheap to do.

However, it doesn't sound like that's the real issue. If you just aren't going to be happy with the pastor and the pastor isn't going to be happy with you no matter what the monitor setup is then that won't solve your problem. 25 minutes for worship is doing pretty good in a lot of churches. There are lots of reasons to keep the service shorter, or to keep the worship part of the service shorter.

Sorry for a short sermon, but here it comes anyway. Being on a stage in front of the congregation is not all about you. If a musician needs to be talked down off a cloud and his explanation is "but I was just worshiping" the answer is that isn't what you are there for. The point is to facilitate all the people in the seats worshiping. If you are off in a cloud with just you and Jesus, and 100 people are sitting there watching you do your thing, then it was a wasted morning.

I would start by trying to understand what the pastor is trying to accomplish without thinking about how it impacts your corner of the world. Is he trying to make the whole service shorter so that visitors come back? Is he dealing with complaints from older church members who don't like the music so loud and can't stand for so long? There's a reason why he's doing the things you don't like and it's not just to bum you out. What's the real reason and is that a strategy you can buy into or not?

Second thing I would do is figure out what part of this problem is your fault. Maybe it's 99% the pastor's fault and only 1% your fault. If so, what's the 1%? Figuring that out is important because that's the part you can do something about. Even if fixing that 1% won't salvage this situation it will make you better at whatever comes next. It may even be that you might find out it's more than 1% that you can do something about.

Good luck with it. Church would be so much easier if only there weren't other people involved.

[TodB]

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

A great morning today, with the new bass being put through its paces and passing the test. I learned that a pick on the bridge pickup is too trebly for regular use. I also found that my pedalboard was introducing quite a lot of noise so I just bypassed all of it except the tuner. I may go back to just bringing the tuner and forgetting the effects - this bass deserves to be heard in its purest form!

+1 for dumping the effects. I did that too and have been very happy with the result.

[rotis]

Originally Posted by TodB

. If a musician needs to be talked down off a cloud and his explanation is "but I was just worshiping" the answer is that isn't what you are there for. The point is to facilitate all the people in the seats worshiping. If you are off in a cloud with just you and Jesus, and 100 people are sitting there watching you do your thing, then it was a wasted morning.

I would start by trying to understand what the pastor is trying to accomplish without thinking about how it impacts your corner of the world. Is he trying to make the whole service shorter so that visitors come back? Is he dealing with complaints from older church members who don't like the music so loud and can't stand for so long? There's a reason why he's doing the things you don't like and it's not just to bum you out. What's the real reason and is that a strategy you can buy into or not?.

I am not commenting on the situation that this was a reply to but to the statements in this reply in general.

I wish this would happen more often. I have seen so many worship team members who are a distraction to the actual worship. I was at a network conference recently and the worship leader reinterpreted almost every song we sang. You had to figure out how he wanted to sing every song, even songs the movement was famous for in the 90s. I am sure he was just worshiping but he wasn't leading very well.

Then there are the extra exuberant singers who get so excited they no longer sing in pitch as they jump and yell, drummers who treat every pause as a time for a fill, keyboard players who start banging their left hand in some muddy offbeat rhythm and guitar players who close their eyes, kick back their head and seemingly have a Woodstock flashback.

We charismatics have a tendency to to allow leaders to stay in a chorus endlessly while repeating the same made up phrase and call it prophetic. All the while the people are checking their watches asking God when this will all end.

All this to say, we need folks who aren't on the worship team to let the worship team know when we are close to losing focus as to why we are on stage.

Guess that was a sermonete as well. Oh well.

[Dave the Bass]

In regards to the "age wars" in church, my pastor says, "You older folks have had lots of years to have things the way you wanted, it's someone else's turn."

And it works......we have lots and lots of older people who have learned to enjoy lights and fog and subs and decibel levels that, while fairly high, aren't ridiculously so.

[TodB]

Originally Posted by Dave the Bass

In regards to the "age wars" in church, my pastor says, "You older folks have had lots of years to have things the way you wanted, it's someone else's turn."

And it works......we have lots and lots of older people who have learned to enjoy lights and fog and subs and decibel levels that, while fairly high, aren't ridiculously so.

There comes a time where you have to decide if you want to be in a church or a museum. If you want to do things just the way they did them in 1977, or 1877, then you want to be in a museum.

On the other hand, if you want to be in a church, that's all about passing the torch on to the next generation. That means letting the next generation step up even if you could do it better, or at least you could do it in the way that you like better. 15 years ago I was leading and playing every week. Now I'm playing bass behind leaders young enough to be my kids, and not playing every week so there's room for younger players, even though I like to play and think I play better than they do. Transitions are the way it's supposed to work.

Footnote: There are people who still connect with traditional liturgy and right on to the churches who meet that need even though most of them don't have bass players hanging out here. We're all called to feed the world and the guys serving burgers shouldn't complain that the guys serving tacos are doing it wrong. You should just understand what kind of church you want to be a part of, and if the leadership is serving tacos but you connect with burgers then you need to find a place that does burgers.

[praisebass]

Originally Posted by rotis

I am not commenting on the situation that this was a reply to but to the statements in this reply in general....

....All this to say, we need folks who aren't on the worship team to let the worship team know when we are close to losing focus as to why we are on stage.

Guess that was a sermonete as well. Oh well.

I agree. I take guidance from Hebrews 13:15 about the 'sacrifice of praise' thing. Its what we are to offer as individuals and as a band, not what we are to subject the congregation too. We shouldn't make it their 'sacrifice' to endure our 'praise'.

[Steve Dallman]

i have played on worship teams since 1983, and back to 1968 if you include early folk masses (back in my Catholic years). In 17 years at a Calvary Chapel, the pastor's directive was, "Be transparent, worship by example, that they might see Jesus."

That pastor that instructed to quit performing, should have been pressed to be specific. Who are the musicians that are performing and what exactly is it that they are doing that is objectionable? It is quite unfair to throw out such a vague order to everyone, and then leave the musicians and singers to try to guess what it is that is upsetting him.

When I was in my 30's, I wondered if I would still be playing on a worship team when I was 50. I just turned 60, and am still on a worship team, and have been the go-to bass player among several for a few years. I'm the oldest member among the 60 musicians that play at our church. Age doesn't seem to be a concern with anyone.

[coyoteboy]

1184. Thanks!

After a couple weeks off coming up, i may be on my own for a couple weeks. I dont sing very well, but i may just use some arco and take the lead on melody. It helps that the selections will be simple and familiar.

!!!

[theLimeyBrit]

Originally Posted by TodB

Footnote: There are people who still connect with traditional liturgy and right on to the churches who meet that need even though most of them don't have bass players hanging out here.

One of the things that first attracted me to my church and I still find wonderful today is the way we blend traditional liturgy with modern worship. We have the robes and candles and formalized calls, responses and prayers (and weekly Communion!), and we worship with an eclectic mix of hymns, old school gospel music and modern stuff from the likes of Tomlin and Redman.

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallman

That pastor that instructed to quit performing, should have been pressed to be specific. Who are the musicians that are performing and what exactly is it that they are doing that is objectionable? It is quite unfair to throw out such a vague order to everyone, and then leave the musicians and singers to try to guess what it is that is upsetting him.

Right on. I think most of us will agree that the Bible is right. There are Biblical ways of resolving conflict. According to Matthew 18:15-17, the person with the issue, whether a congregant, a pastor, an elder, or an outside observer, needs to bring the issue right the person or group of people.

Also, the viewpoints on both sides need to be backed by Scripture in proper historical and literary context. One of my favorite misused pieces of Scripture in terms of worship is "Be still and know that I am God." First, this passage is not about worship or praise, it's about calming the Israelites before they were about to head into a battle. Some Scripture that I know that does relate to praise and worship is 1 Chronicles 13:8: " David and all the Israelites were celebrating with all their might before God, with songs and with harps, lyres, timbrels, cymbals and trumpets." (NIV) Also, there is Psalm 150:

"1 Praise the Lord.[a]
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.
2 Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.
3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.
6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord." (NIV)

Do these verses sound like we need to be "low key" or "not performing?"

See also Romans 12:1-8. We are one body with many members who have different gifts. If our gifts involve musicianship, performance, and motivation, should we not use them for the body of Christ? In regards to "performance vs. worship," doesn't the Bible say many times that God wants us to bring our firstfruits, the first of our best? I know that God does not want a sacrifice of unauthorized fire, but God does want our best.

I will confess that there have been times that I've felt more like a session musician than a worship musician. There are times that I've had a greater heart of worship in my truck on the way to work than I've had on stage at church. As I am typing this, I checked on BibleGateway searching for "heart" and "worship." Isaiah 29:13-14 is an eye-opener:

"13 The Lord says:

'These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is based on merely human rules they have been taught.[a]
14 Therefore once more I will astound these people
with wonder upon wonder;
the wisdom of the wise will perish,
the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish.'" (NIV)

A thought after reading this is perhaps we should let worship teams play, and let God work His wonders in the hearts of the people attending.

How many churches, how many people, when their man-made rules and formulas are weighed against Scripture, might have their eyes and hearts opened?

There are typically three general outcomes from a conflict resolution process in a church. A) we come to a mutually beneficial decision and act accordingly, B) we "agree to disagree" and one side changes in the best interest of the greater good, or C) we "agree to disagree" and both sides go their separate ways. For some conflicts, only prayer and study of Scripture can solve.

In any event, God be praised. He is worthy of our highest praise.

[BlueLine1]

Wow, and the "Be still and know that I am God" was one of our verses this Sunday. Pretty cool....
Good job HIGA. After reading your post, I had to go back and do it again. It sure made me think deeper the second time...... Thanks,
Alan

[invalidprotocol]

Some of you may be familiar with this resource already but this is some very good teaching on worship.

http://trainer.gatewayworshipteam.com/index.html

[mkandolf]

Originally Posted by TodB

There comes a time where you have to decide if you want to be in a church or a museum. If you want to do things just the way they did them in 1977, or 1877, then you want to be in a museum.

Funny thing (well, really not so funny) is the town I live in and the next town down river... both have churches that were turned into local museums. Samll towns where the churches got old and died out and the towns turned them in to museums. Cool museums too!

Could be worse. Another place I lived the church down the street was turned into a bar.

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by mkandolf

Funny thing (well, really not so funny) is the town I live in and the next town down river... both have churches that were turned into local museums. Samll towns where the churches got old and died out and the towns turned them in to museums. Cool museums too!

Could be worse. Another place I lived the church down the street was turned into a bar.

On the one hand it's sad for a church to close and become a museum but I'd say that's better than it remaining open as a church that feels like a museum!

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by dDaddybass

Joe and I are going to doing an order for some T-shirts with a design that he and I came up with. If anyone is interested just click the link in my sig.

Doesn't let me...