The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club part 23

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by Paladin54

One day the most offending speakers would be gone. When he asks about them then I would tell him they are ruining the house mix which is what its all about and its time to move on.

This method, while it might be what many soundmen want to try, is probably a good way to become an "ex" church soundman.

I'm not trying to get personal, but I would recommend a more positive approach like "I just want to try it this way. Just give this an honest chance." or even "Please humor me on this just one week...."

The results and congregational feedback can sometimes speak for themselves.

[english4bw]

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

But he's just duplicating... I mean it's negating... what he's doing is... but it's missing the point of... AAAAAAAAARRRRRGH!

:banghead:

[mkandolf]

One of my favorite episodes ever right there!

[Paladin54]

Originally Posted by HereIGoAgain

This method, while it might be what many soundmen want to try, is probably a good way to become an "ex" church soundman.

I'm not trying to get personal, but I would recommend a more positive approach like "I just want to try it this way. Just give this an honest chance." or even "Please humor me on this just one week...."

The results and congregational feedback can sometimes speak for themselves.

I know, but I have a low tolerance for stuff that is totally illogical and probably would have spoken up a long time ago. I have a hard time letting stuff like that slide.

[Samsound]

Originally Posted by Paladin54

I know, but I have a low tolerance for stuff that is totally illogical and probably would have spoken up a long time ago. I have a hard time letting stuff like that slide.

Yeah, its rare that I run FOH rather than play bass. The last time was with our old wedges - no problem. Even playing bass last week, I noticed those monitors were deafening even with my earbuds in. I actually found myself thinking that OSHA would shut the place down and was genuinely concerned for my hearing.

[jefff100]

Originally Posted by khutch

.... one large binder that holds everything and it is at the point where it needs to become two! I have one small binder that holds just a given week's music. ...

Ken

tried doing this; and I still run a 2 binder system. Invariably there will be a last minute on the fly change to the music; or our wednesday night practice runs long and turns into a jam session & working on other stuff so I end up needing all the books.

During a routine physical my doctor noted I had a red mark on my shoulder...it was right in the spot on my left shoulder where the strap from the music book bag rides. That was a motivating factor for me. Don't know why I didnt notice it.

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by Samsound

Yeah, its rare that I run FOH rather than play bass. The last time was with our old wedges - no problem. Even playing bass last week, I noticed those monitors were deafening even with my earbuds in. I actually found myself thinking that OSHA would shut the place down and was genuinely concerned for my hearing.

There's an easy way to tell:

http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/noi...ards_more.html

Here are some real-world examples of sounds and their measured levels:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

[TodB]

Originally Posted by HereIGoAgain

This method, while it might be what many soundmen want to try, is probably a good way to become an "ex" church soundman.

I'm not trying to get personal, but I would recommend a more positive approach like "I just want to try it this way. Just give this an honest chance." or even "Please humor me on this just one week...."

The results and congregational feedback can sometimes speak for themselves.

It's amazing how often someone describes what sounds like a hardware issue but it's really a people skills issue.

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by TodB

It's amazing how often someone describes what sounds like a hardware issue but it's really a people skills issue.

Have to give you kudos for this one. Seen this IRL.

[throughthefire]

On stage, I run an Aguilar DB750 into an Aguilar 4x10 cab for monitoring/scaring the front row, with a line out into the house PA (4000W).

Music: I have a 4" binder with copies of everything I've ever played (all in sheet protectors - about 200 songs), with the four that we're doing that Sunday in another (much smaller) binder. We only ever rehearse the four that we're playing, so the reference binder never needs to leave the house.

I'd like to try one of the iPad things, but finances prohibit...

Pete

[Samsound]

Originally Posted by HereIGoAgain

There's an easy way to tell:

http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/noi...ards_more.html

Here are some real-world examples of sounds and their measured levels:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

Thanks for that OSHA link. I may just walk up there during sound check with my SPL meter. If it's at least 100 dB, I'll let him know the church is required to implement a Hearing Conservation Program thanks to him, lol.

[mtb777]

Originally Posted by throughthefire

On stage, I run an Aguilar DB750 into an Aguilar 4x10 cab for monitoring/scaring the front row, with a line out into the house PA (4000W).

Music: I have a 4" binder with copies of everything I've ever played (all in sheet protectors - about 200 songs), with the four that we're doing that Sunday in another (much smaller) binder. We only ever rehearse the four that we're playing, so the reference binder never needs to leave the house.

I'd like to try one of the iPad things, but finances prohibit...

Pete

Haha. I have the MEGA binder that's just stuffed and then some. I have Small Group binder which is about 50 regular songs out of 115, the Oasis Band binder which is about 45 songs mostly in different keys and is more country oriented, and then I have the Sojourn Church binder that's got about 40 songs that as they have been added, have been very eclectic mix for the most part. I carry that in an old lighting bag that also carries cords strings and batteries, plug strips and my powered PA Monitor that I use as a small amp. Usually only one book goes with me unless I'm double dipping like tomorrow at the Art Festival that I'm playing at with my regular band, Earthen Vessels. Later I'll be sitting in with the Oasis Ministry Band. After that is Sojourn Church!

[floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by nick98338

If you mean this version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy-ZKzopyzw
Nothing unusual there. Just using two octaves of the same note. Can't tell exactly how the player is doing that. Could be playing the octave on the same string. Could be playing the lower note on one string, then playing an octave up on another string.

Other than the octave thing, the bass player is just playing the root of the chord. And the bass note pattern is matching the kick drum pretty closely. Just need to work that out with the drummer.

I've played this song, but not the same as this recording.

We play this version now and then, and the Sunday night 20-somethings band I used to play with played it often. It's an awesome, powerful song, but the key (I think) is to keep the bass line changing since it's the same note all through the verses. I change up the pattern every other line and use different octaves like in the recording. The ear will get "tired" of the exact same thing repeated over and over, but a slight variation, like middle E instead of low E, can make a difference. Also band dynamics are really important. Everyone needs to pull way back for the beginning of the verses and slowly build to a big chorus.
I hope this helps. This is one of those songs that, as a bass player, you think "how boring" but it doesn't have to be.

[Paladin54]

What is FOH?

[christle]

Originally Posted by Paladin54

What is FOH?

Front of House. The soundboard.

[Paladin54]

Originally Posted by christle

Front of House. The soundboard.

Thanks. I would never have figured that one out.

[english4bw]

Originally Posted by Paladin54

What is FOH?

Originally Posted by christle

Front of House. The soundboard.

Yeah. here's a few more typical names, just in case you hear them and aren't familiar.

Stage terminology (short-form)

Backstage - area behind stage (usually separated by a curtain/staging)
Upstage - rear of stage (usually connected to the backstage area)
Backline - located in the upstage area and/or at the back of a raised stage.
Downstage - front of stage
Stage Left
Stage Right
MAINS - P.A. speakers
SUBS - Low-freq./bass speakers
IEMs - in-ear monitors
MON - wedge/stage monitors
SOS - side of stage mixer (usually to control MON, IEMs, lighting, etc.)

[Dave the Bass]

Originally Posted by Samsound

Running sound this week, and I am FRUSTRATED! We bought a bunch of the Aviom style IEMs to cut down stage volume. Asst. WL now has IEMs, plus two massive Mackie floor monitors PLUS two Bose towers ALL pointed at his head. The stage volume is INSANE!! Since the Mackies point up and back, the indirect sound is LOUD, MUFFLED vocals. After rehearsal he turned them down, and said he doesn't use them any louder. Ughhh. Best I can do is blast the Bose so he keeps the Mackies low. Pray for us, please...

Between the IEMs, the Mackies pointed up at him, and the Bose from the sides and rear, he's probably getting so much phase cancellation that no amount of volume will allow him to hear clearly......all those different soundwaves coming from all those different directions are just wiping each other out. He really needs to pick just one system and go with that.....

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by Dave the Bass

Between the IEMs, the Mackies pointed up at him, and the Bose from the sides and rear, he's probably getting so much phase cancellation that no amount of volume will allow him to hear clearly......all those different soundwaves coming from all those different directions are just wiping each other out. He really needs to pick just one system and go with that.....

Shoot! Now I'm kicking myself for not remembering that concept.

Phase cancellation and phasing problems are very much something to consider.

[khutch]

Originally Posted by jefff100

tried doing this; and I still run a 2 binder system. Invariably there will be a last minute on the fly change to the music; or our wednesday night practice runs long and turns into a jam session & working on other stuff so I end up needing all the books.

Every worship team has its own culture. Our WL doesn't pull last minute changes beyond the order of the songs and minor adjustments to the arrangement of a particular song. Practices never go as long as I would be willing to keep at it and we only practice what is on the list for that Sunday. Now the same WL is also the choir director and choir rehearsals are all over the map. New songs, last minute changes, whatever. But the choir music is all there at the church in the choir rehearsal room so no problem. If carrying the "big binder" around is an issue for you I would suggest keeping it at church where it will be handy when things change and just take home the music you want to practice that week.

Ken