The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club part 23

[FellowBass]

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

Same situation but 3-5 people the only thing is it seems like the variety & inconsistency hurts us not helps. We need to invest more practice & playing time. It's evident we don't play together enough. Now I'm answering my own question. We could use a click track. We use aviom to monitor ourselves.

Yeah with avioms, I think a click would help with consistency as the band members rotate through.

[jefff100]

Originally Posted by aServantLeader

In lighter topics, I am waiting for true 88 flat wound tape wound strings for the frettless plus I bought a roll of 1/8" chrome pin striping for cheater marks.

FWIW - I stared taking lessons on double bass about a year ago. My instructor took a pencil and scribed pencil marks across the fingerboard in the spots where we would think of frets at. Not all the "frets" mind you, just the critical ones. "positions" are different on upright....but I digress. the point here was that the pencil marks (graphite) are virtually invisible from more than about 4 or 5 feet away, they don't disfigure your instrument. Eventually they wear off, and you pencil them back in. One day you will realize that they wore off and you don't need them anymore anyway.

[Emprov]

Originally Posted by FellowBass

Yeah with avioms, I think a click would help with consistency as the band members rotate through.

We put a Dr. Beat through one of the channels and it's been an amazing help. Of course, when the rhythms and beats get tricky it still can be hard for some of the drummers to stay as steady as the metronome, causing snare/kick and beeps to be irritatingly out of synch. When it gets too bad, the drummer will just shut off the metronome and we'll go nekkid. Overall, it works pretty darn well though.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by BassistHound

Hey guys new to the forum and I wanted to see whats up? Im about to start playing in my church band soon and saw your group and wanted to see whats up.

A little bit of this and a little bit of that. The discussion ranges from techniques and style to gear and sound systems to... and we can change focus on a dime should something peak our collective interest. Just no theology or bible study if that is what you are expecting the board rules are still enforced, if relaxed inside of the club threads.

If you like us there are the 22 previous club threads. Post number 1 of each new part normally has a link to the next older one.

[OHBandit]

OK...new to this Praise and Worship thread. Where does the P&W Bassist # in everyone's signature come from?

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by OHBandit

OK...new to this Praise and Worship thread. Where does the P&W Bassist # in everyone's signature come from?

We draw lots for them.

(Or hang around and mkandolf, High Keeper of the Numbers, will issue you with yours.)

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by OHBandit

OK...new to this Praise and Worship thread. Where does the P&W Bassist # in everyone's signature come from?

Mine comes from a brief stay in a North Korean prison camp, but I don't like to talk about that.

Everyone else just posts about what church they attend, a bit about about their gear and playing history, and eventually the mod shows up to assign them a number!

[slobake]

Originally Posted by Jhengsman

Just no theology or bible study if that is what you are expecting the board rules are still enforced, if relaxed inside of the club threads.

If you want you can talk about this in the lounge as long as you as long as you adhere to general rules about respect for each other. I think that 's a good rule no matter where we are.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by TodB

...I don't know about 300 years ago, but church music 40-50 years ago certainly wasn't a "golden age".

I typed up a few paragraphs of my pet peeves about why so much church music is crappy and deleted them, twice. I suspect that there are still a few Mozarts out there, but most of us are like the 1,000 other composers of Mozart's time that we've never heard of. You just do the best you can even if we can't all be Mozart.

I was interested by the various ways my original rant about musicianship in church spun off into conversations about auditions, the worthiness of our praise, click tracks, the balance between head and heart, etc.

All good stuff, and some interesting perspectives expressed.

Ironically, having grown up around music education, what I was actually thinking about at the time, is what I perceive as the decline of public arts education, and a corresponding anti-intellectual bent in some church circles.

I'm not talking about 300 years ago, or even 50. In the late 60's and early 70's, music education was still a mandatory program in Canadian public and high schools, and most high school graduates had at least a rudimentary ability to read conventional notation, and a basic understanding of harmony.

Fast forward to today, and in my circle of friends, I don't know anyone who isn't a professional musician, who could read a simple melody. I was about to name one exception, but then I remembered that she is well on her way to becoming a private violin teacher.

On a related subject, a friend from Ghana recently pointed out the heavy classical influence and interest in advanced harmony that's present in a lot of Afro-American gospel, and contrasted it against the dumbed-down 4-chord simplicity of a lot of CCM.

He got me wondering if the heavy Nashville influence on CCM might be one of the causes...

[Jhengsman]

In California we got either a musical or a visual art. I don't know how the educators made the initial decision maybe by draw. I know I got beginning woodwinds in both junior and senior high school but didn't tell anyone because I got my hands on a sax instead of a clarinet the second time around.

As for CCM I joke about it being Paul Baloch and his Acoustic Guitar DVD as the cause.

[rotis]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

He got me wondering if the heavy Nashville influence on CCM might be one of the causes...

I think the root cause is that most folks in secular bands live for music. I am not inferring the sin of idolatry. I just mean it is their passion. Likewise, I have only met a handful of church musicians who have the same passion.

No driving musical passion in the world = no gigs.
Lack of musical passion in the church, yet having the ability to play pretty close to on time = weekly gig.

It is what it is. The folks with the passion who are willing to spend their lives honing their craft get big and those who don't...don't.

I love playing bass. I am not that good and doubt I will get considerably better any time soon and am downright giddy I get to play all the time.

Selah

[Dan Knowlton]

Originally Posted by FellowBass

Yeah with avioms, I think a click would help with consistency as the band members rotate through.

We are "cheating." In addition to the musicians on the stage, there is a sequence going and the drummer gets a click with the sequence. Lately, it has been just the band playing - no horns or strings.

Dan K.

[Bakkster_Man]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

Ironically, having grown up around music education, what I was actually thinking about at the time, is what I perceive as the decline of public arts education, and a corresponding anti-intellectual bent in some church circles.
...
On a related subject, a friend from Ghana recently pointed out the heavy classical influence and interest in advanced harmony that's present in a lot of Afro-American gospel, and contrasted it against the dumbed-down 4-chord simplicity of a lot of CCM.

He got me wondering if the heavy Nashville influence on CCM might be one of the causes...

I'm not sure it's necessarily anti-intellectual (at least not everywhere). There seems to be a wider ranging anti-performance mindset. I hear a lot that church shouldn't be 'like going to a rock concert', as in, going to see a band perform rather than going to worship with a band. I think somewhere along the way the idea of high quality musicianship was a casualty of trying to make the worship more corporate.

Mentioning gospel is one example. I sure can't play it to save my life, but when we do stretch and do something venturing more to that end of the spectrum the congregation always responds positively. In this case, the band stretching its chops doesn't detract from worship as the 'performance' worry goes, it enhances it.

So of course the education plays a big role as well (can't have a corporate worship if the congregation can't sing it, let alone if the band can't play it), but I think it got pushed out in favor of simpler songs partly because that's all the congregations could sing, rather than the other way around.

It has me thinking of the church scene in Blues Brothers, though. Worship without the congregation singing, mostly dancing. Still corporate and participatory, just without needing to be words.

[TodB]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

Fast forward to today, and in my circle of friends, I don't know anyone who isn't a professional musician, who could read a simple melody.

Wind the tape back to the 1970s when most congregational music was in hymnals, with four part harmony. Add to that church choirs reading sheet music. I'm guessing a lot more church members back then could at least take a swing at reading a melody line, but I'm not really sure what that means. (Footnote, I'm a huge fan of arts education in public schools, but that's another story).

I'm not sure why I connect this story to that issue, but I'll tell it anyway. One of the most amazing church experiences I ever had was visiting a Sunday morning service in Bora Bora, Tahiti. The service was all in Tahitian. You can tell the difference between announcements and the sermon even if you don't speak the language.

Naturally, the point of the story is the music. Two rows of the congregation would sing a song with the most amazing Tahitian harmonies, then two different rows would sing a song, again with amazing harmonies, and on it went. It seems like it just reflected a culture where the arts were seen differently. I have a worship leader friend who went to Africa, brought his guitar, but never took it out of the case because it quickly became obvious that he didn't have anything to show them about music.

[OHBandit]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

Mine comes from a brief stay in a North Korean prison camp, but I don't like to talk about that.

Everyone else just posts about what church they attend, a bit about about their gear and playing history, and eventually the mod shows up to assign them a number!

Cool...here goes. I've played bass for about 35 years now. I'm a no frills kinda player with the attitude that less is more (most of the time). Guess that comes from my country roots. I play bass and sing some B.U. vocals for the worship team at OriginsChurch.tv in Cincinnati, Ohio. We play the latest stuff like Tomlin, Stanfill, Crowder, etc... My main axe is a Music Man Stingray 5 into an Eden Navigator to the board. Looking to add to it with maybe a P bass for something different.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by Bakkster_Man

Mentioning gospel is one example. I sure can't play it to save my life, but when we do stretch and do something venturing more to that end of the spectrum the congregation always responds positively. In this case, the band stretching its chops doesn't detract from worship as the 'performance' worry goes, it enhances it.

I would/did start at the roots. A jazzy blues which is the basis for "quartet" style. From there expand to the funk or neo-soul of modern urban gospel. Just saying if you can handle the blues you are halfway there

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

I don't know anyone who isn't a professional musician, who could read a simple melody.

I agree. We used to show the melody and words on the projection/tv screens, but now we just show the words. When we do a new tune, we play it week after week (in different parts of the service if/when appropriate) to "teach" it to the congregation. Wrote learning is all you can do these days.

Originally Posted by Bakkster_Man

I hear a lot that church shouldn't be 'like going to a rock concert', as in, going to see a band perform rather than going to worship with a band.

In our good old lutheran church, we do all we can to get the stodgy Norwegians and Germans to "get into" the service. We've had the performance/leading worship conversation. We all come from a performance background. When we play, it's hard not to. I don't think we "show off" or over do it. We've kind of decided that if people want to sit and "watch" instead of participate, there's nothing we can do but keep doing what we're doing. Hopefully, they will be inspired to worship, let loose a little and maybe raise their hands once in a while, clap along, something. It is frustrating to be putting all you can into a song and look out at people just siting there, staring back at you.

[5StringFool]

I've always found it odd that even those who I would consider "stodgy" will many times become downright animated when their favorite sports team is vying for the win in an "important game", yet somehow it's improper to show enthusiasm during a worship service for the Creator of the Universe that has redeemed and given us enternal life through His Son.

It boggles my mind.

[mdjuszyn]

I have to step up and give huge kudos to the music programs in the public schools in our area. My son's middle school concert band is 10 times as good as anything I ever played in my middle school days. Same goes for the choral programs. On Friday night we went to a middle school jazz festival and there were 9 bands there and they were all exceptional. 6th-8th graders. His band was one of them. One band had a kid playing an upright in the rhythm section. My other two sons get a very good general music background in the mandatory music classes in their elementary school. They also play bells and sing in church. There are still many places where public school music programs thrive and develop excellent young musicians. I agree this is not the case everywhere but I also don't think this is the exception either.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by TodB

Naturally, the point of the story is the music. Two rows of the congregation would sing a song with the most amazing Tahitian harmonies, then two different rows would sing a song, again with amazing harmonies, and on it went. It seems like it just reflected a culture where the arts were seen differently. I have a worship leader friend who went to Africa, brought his guitar, but never took it out of the case because it quickly became obvious that he didn't have anything to show them about music.

In our case it is not just the music, but how the congregation responds. The seniors, mostly white Americans are always reminding us we are a pentecostal church. Maybe thinkingback to the day of "Jesus Freaks" when pop music styles and more let's call it energenic praise among the congregation was happening.

The church elders and currently serving leadership tends to be dominated by Nigerians and on those occaisions when we get going they will start to dance and they were gthe ones who encouraged me to dance while I played.

Now the newest members of our church are Chinese who have supplanted the kids of the White seniors and make up the bulk of the local community. They will learn from the Nigerian elders or the church will move in the other direction over the next 20 years. Right now we fill a niche in our valley but we all most adapt and grow, or die.