The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club part 23

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by brianerwin

I would really like to play at church, however, our director/band leader has a very nice setup that he uses all the time. He has a laptop computer with MIDI programs in it and he has the best setup I have ever seen. He incorporates drums, bass, strings, organ and the piano with all the toys sounds he needs.
This guy has mastered the MIDI system and is the dean of the music department at our
local university. He did his thesis on using the MIDI system in music.
Not to mention he is the nicest person. I have the most respect for him.
As for Sundays, I am in the band playing my first instrument... The saxophone.
It is just awesome being part of the music program at our church.

Is he using electronics to compensate for a lack of real instruments, or as in preference to them? I can get on board with the former, but I'd always to prefer to have the real thing if possible. Have you talked to him about playing bass?

[iceboxbass]

Originally Posted by JebDude

Yep, a couple of people were quoting this one a few pages back. A classic.

JB

I've seen that YouTube video before and it's still a hoot! Thx!

Originally Posted by spindoc

I've used a chorus in the past when playing the first part of All Things New (but we're doing it this week and I'm not using it, as it sounds fine as is with keyboards and current guitarist). I've also used a volume pedal for the swells on One Thing Remains, and compression a couple of times. But usually, no effects.

I don't use effect pedals currently but I've been thinking possibly using a chorus pedal for songs like "Red Letters" by DC Talk.

Originally Posted by theLimeyBrit

I'm currently the only electric instrument on stage and I have a WL who encourages me to do whatever I want with my sound, so I get to have a good time

That nice to have freedom!

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

I'm currently running without effects - I'm enjoying the tone of the new bass too much to colour it!

I'm with you there.

Originally Posted by throughthefire

Usually my signal chain is

brain*->fingers->Schecter Bass->Korg Pitchblack tuner->Aguilar DB750

* - optional
.

Love your optional! hehehe

Originally Posted by TodB

Bass > tuner > amp. It seems to me that effects take away more than they add.

I'm with you there...of course I haven't used effects so who am I to say. I look at it this way...will it make worship time that much better? It's all about the "audience of 1". Do we let our ingenuity get in the way of just letting the Holy Spirit move amongst HIS church to touch the hearts of people? I have nothing against effects pedals by no means brothers/sisters...only spiritual food for thought.

[iceboxbass]

Originally Posted by Bakkster_Man

Do you play that one with the arrangement using double stops?

I run a compressor 100% of the time. I'm also usually running an EQ, but I just got an active J-bass and use that for light overdrive on songs with more of a rock tone. I also occassionally use a Bass Big Muff when I have a solo part.

Usually, though, my effect is a Small Stone phaser. I use it a lot when playing double stops or on more sparse arrangements. Being a 4 piece I will sometimes use it to give a bit of a synth bass sound when the WL wants that but needs to be playing something else on the keys.

Yes I do the double stops. I tried to get our other bassist to do it this week at rehearsal but she's too new and was intimidated by it.
I so wish it was my turn on bass this last Sunday...so many awesome songs! But lent season is starting and there'll be a lot more playing time

Originally Posted by praisebass

Bass > Tuner > Amp

+1! Bass>rig>DI. This week ill be adding my Sansamp BDDI in place of the house DI.

Originally Posted by Bakkster_Man

How's the action on your bass? I was always getting massive cramps and could really only play the song twice a day during rehearsal before my fingers would seize up. I just got a new bass that's properly set up and it's a night and day difference, I could probably play it all day now. I'm guessing it's the thinner Jazz neck and lower action so I'm not needing to work quite as hard.

Setup is huge.

Originally Posted by khutch

I don't use any at church. I have a Pandora Mini I have played with at home. Most of the time I would not know what to do with it at church although some of the effects could be useful for some songs, I suppose. Our worship teams pretty much always include a synth player though and the synth can supply most anything that is needed, and plenty of things I cannot imagine anyone ever needing! If you have something you want to use then I would suggest trying it at rehearsals and letting your team give you feedback on it. One of our bass players uses a multi-effects pedal all the time but I would have to ask her what she uses it for since I haven't heard her do anything I could attribute to that pedal. I imagine it has a tuner function and it is quite possible that is all she uses it for based on what I hear. As with most things I would say let the Spirit and your worship leader/team be your guide.

Ken

+1

Originally Posted by OHBandit

Great set list today at church. I played and sang B.U. Vocals.

Our God
Filled With Glory
Jesus Paid It All
Like A Lion

Anyone here from Cincinnati area?

I know you'll enjoy that Matt Freeman!

Originally Posted by c_maj

Had a great time this morning. When my Pastor got up to preach, he said he felt the need to spread his spiritual wings and flex on the devil. He went on to say, "You know, like back in the day when cars had carburetors... back in the days of the true muscle cars, like the GTs and Camaros... when you'd pull up to a red light, put it in neutral and rev the engine a couple of times to let everyone around you know what you had under the hood..."

So what did that mean to me? LET THE "BOOSHING" BEGIN!!! I set my effects box to "octave lower" for a single, double and triple "BOOSH". And the congregation went wild.

While Pastor continued speaking, I kept my volume low while sliding my fingers between the 1st and 3rd frets to imitate an idling engine (I down tune (CGDA) btw) and every time he said "rev the engine", I'd cut loose.

Concurrently, the sound guys turned my volume aaaallll the way up in the house, so not only could you hear the "BOOSH", you could feel it as well.

Hubby walked out of church with his chest puffed out b/c the brothers kept high-fiving him and saying, "Man, your wife sounds suh-weeet!" I think there's going to be some really happy dentists in town this week... as I think I may have rattled a whole lot of fillings/crowns/bridges loose. Since it's all in the Name of Jesus it's all good!!

Awesome improv!

Originally Posted by HereIGoAgain

I have a jazz bass, and I can do root-fifth-octave barres without much trouble. A proper setup makes all the difference. In fact, a so-so instrument with a great setup will outplay a high-end instrument with a poor setup.

+1 brother!

Originally Posted by sasred

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me your church records the sermons & puts them online. I want to hear this. Link please. Here's another hi-five, sister to sister!

Me too!

Originally Posted by caeman

Philosophy.

I examined what I really wanted for a sound and I learned that I like the tone of my Gretsch G2202. It doesn't need an overdrive pedal. And in the churches I am playing, the resulting sound of my clean bass seems to reinforce the music really well. My sonic goal is to sit IN the mix and support my role.

I tend to play with a light touch. I like to turn the level up so I don't have to touch the strings very hard. This leaves me a lot of room with my Gretsch for dynamics. I can slap and pop a string, vibrato (the classical way, not string-bending).

In my particular situation, going minimal has worked.

+1 chad!

[mkandolf]

Signal chain for this week:

Doublebass \
Fretless -----Line Selector - Tuner - Octave - Chorus - Para Driver - Tube Amp.
Precision --/

[caeman]

Originally Posted by OHBandit

Anyone here from Cincinnati area?

There are a few of us here in the Cinci area, yes. I live up in Oxford.

[brianerwin]

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

Is he using electronics to compensate for a lack of real instruments, or as in preference to them? I can get on board with the former, but I'd always to prefer to have the real thing if possible. Have you talked to him about playing bass?

It started out as a way to compensate for real instruments, but the band has grown to a size of like a jazz band.
There are flutes, clarinets, saxes, french horns, trumpets and trombones. We often have a tuba sit in and at one time we had a drummer (but we all know how they can be...J/K).
Now he uses the midi as a percussion and bass section.
He adds strings when needed and put in the small percussion instruments. Like bells and guero and the like. it is an awesome sounding setup.

[english4bw]

"There's already WAY too much going on effects wise on most worship stages, in my opinion. My bass is the only clean signal that seems to cut through the soup sometimes. Only difference in my setup is: BASS > TUNER > REDDI > AMP"

Originally Posted by bassman314

In Your Opinion... Some people like having effects. Others don't. Don't begrudge those of us who like having options on their tonal palette.

To clarify; I wasn't talking about us bass players having too many effects. I was talking about the OCEAN of delay/reverb/OD from guitarists, and the literal SEA of poly-tone that comes from the average worship keyboard player these days.

As for bass effects, I would have no problem using a COMP and an OD. Maybe even a POG or other synth. But my job is to be a supportive instrument in a sound dynamic that is usually already SOAKED with effects. As such, I find (again, my opinion) that a cleaner bass tone sits much better in the mix when the other instruments are heavily EFXd

...and I think I did say it was my opinion? Didn't I? And there was no "begrudging" going on at all. Not sure how you read that from my post, but my apologies if you were offended?

[chuck norriss]

As the former soundman people are accustomed to me making suggestions _especially_ re: decreasing delay feedback rates. I still find that asking politely (as a bassist or drummer) will get a point across & they usually abide.
Our most common problem is e & a guitars, & keys over-working the painting. I always tell them listen to the song. Newsflash: Lincoln Brewster doesn't solo during the entire song. I prefer sparse minimalism but sometimes a song calls for a Cliff Williams or Steve Harris.

[bassman314]

Originally Posted by english4bw

"There's already WAY too much going on effects wise on most worship stages, in my opinion. My bass is the only clean signal that seems to cut through the soup sometimes. Only difference in my setup is: BASS > TUNER > REDDI > AMP"



To clarify; I wasn't talking about us bass players having too many effects. I was talking about the OCEAN of delay/reverb/OD from guitarists, and the literal SEA of poly-tone that comes from the average worship keyboard player these days.

As for bass effects, I would have no problem using a COMP and an OD. Maybe even a POG or other synth. But my job is to be a supportive instrument in a sound dynamic that is usually already SOAKED with effects. As such, I find (again, my opinion) that a cleaner bass tone sits much better in the mix when the other instruments are heavily EFXd

...and I think I did say it was my opinion? Didn't I? And there was no "begrudging" going on at all. Not sure how you read that from my post, but my apologies if you were offended?

No offense was taken. I am sorry if I came across that way.

I get your point, and if I were in a similar ensemble, I would probably scale back much of my effects, as well.

In my current ensemble, we have a piano player (worship leader), one guitarist, who is almost always clean, a drummer, and me. Our WL sometimes doubles with a keyboard for specific patches on specific songs, but does this about once every few months. Rarely do we get the sea of reverb, synth, and delay. In our case, sometimes we need that thicker sound, given our instrumentation.

[english4bw]

Originally Posted by bassman314

No offense was taken. I am sorry if I came across that way.

I get your point, and if I were in a similar ensemble, I would probably scale back much of my effects, as well.

In my current ensemble, we have a piano player (worship leader), one guitarist, who is almost always clean, a drummer, and me. Our WL sometimes doubles with a keyboard for specific patches on specific songs, but does this about once every few months. Rarely do we get the sea of reverb, synth, and delay. In our case, sometimes we need that thicker sound, given our instrumentation.

I understand. No worries.

and yeah... must be a very clean sound dynamic in your group. I can see how that would allow more freedom to add EFX onto the bass tone.

[Bakkster_Man]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

2. Over the years, I've observed two distinctly different main reasons for using effects. One is an interest in more varied sounds, and the other is simply to "rev up" a lackluster tone.

Players in the first group are always going to want to use effects, and more power to them, as long as they're used tastefully. I don't use any at the moment, but that's because of context, not because effects are inherently bad.

I've noticed that players in the second group often dump their effects (or at least most of them) after an equipment upgrade.

I must be in the first group, because my new jazz bass has brought my phaser alive

Originally Posted by english4bw

To clarify; I wasn't talking about us bass players having too many effects. I was talking about the OCEAN of delay/reverb/OD from guitarists, and the literal SEA of poly-tone that comes from the average worship keyboard player these days.

I read a great interview with Angus Young once that really solidified the 'less is more' ideal for me. Basically describing that he used very little distortion with AC/DC, it just SOUNDS like a lot, and in fact sounds better than it actually being a lot.

My group has done a lot to narrow down the tone, and I think it sounds better for it. The mere suggestion of delays and overdrive is enough to get the feeling across adequately, without muddying the sound.

[caeman]

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

As the former soundman people are accustomed to me making suggestions _especially_ re: decreasing delay feedback rates. I still find that asking politely (as a bassist or drummer) will get a point across & they usually abide.
Our most common problem is e & a guitars, & keys over-working the painting. I always tell them listen to the song. Newsflash: Lincoln Brewster doesn't solo during the entire song. I prefer sparse minimalism but sometimes a song calls for a Cliff Williams or Steve Harris.

When I would run soundboard, I will give the finnicky musicians what they want...in their monitor...which may not be the same thing that goes to the house. I never tell them otherwise.

[HereIGoAgain]

Effects are just that: effects. Enhancements. Ornaments. Effects should not define the sound. I use my OD in situations where I feel a song could use some grit and a "rounder" sound. (Think Tai Anderson in "Agnus Dei.") I can get that sound with just my amp and instrument, but I highly doubt many WLs would let me play that loud.

It is possible to overdo a distortion effect on bass. I use mine to simply give some meat and extra tone controls to my sound.

It sounds like some feel the same way about effects as I feel about Ableton

[Billy K]

I just played in church last night for the first time.I was a nervous wreak all week.I am not use to worship style and the spontaneousness of it all.You know in the rock bands we'd learn our song rehearse it til good and ad it to the set.So I was worried about messing it up last night.We had prayer before hand and the bass player that plays in the morning came to support me and offer a prayer.Great kid in his mid 20's I am 63 and he was so supportive. In fact the whole crew was Awesome .long story short it went very well.I got a cd after and it sounded good.I am booked again the 24th 6 P.M. service,so they are having me back. well I will be watching the worship post from now on.I may need some new IEM's I have Shure 315's now that will do but some custom ones would be colI haven't spent my Christmas money yet.You people can let me know which to buy.Thanks Billy K

[tbplayer2]

Congrats Billy!
I just played my 2nd service ever last Sunday. Only baby grand, drums, and me. And we pulled it off again! Stumbled a little, then jumped back on track but that's live music. Worship continued (that's the goal), we got several compliments, and I got invited back. Really enjoying playing in the worship setting!

My Savior Lives- Desperation Band in D
My Hope is in You- Aaron Shust- A
Always- Kristian Stanfill in B
Whom Shall I Fear-Chris Tomlin in G
I Surrender- Hillsong in Dm
If We've Ever Needed You-Casting Crowns in G

[english4bw]

Originally Posted by Billy K

I just played in church last night for the first time.I was a nervous wreak all week.I am not use to worship style and the spontaneousness of it all.You know in the rock bands we'd learn our song rehearse it til good and ad it to the set.So I was worried about messing it up last night.We had prayer before hand and the bass player that plays in the morning came to support me and offer a prayer.Great kid in his mid 20's I am 63 and he was so supportive. In fact the whole crew was Awesome .long story short it went very well.I got a cd after and it sounded good.I am booked again the 24th 6 P.M. service,so they are having me back. well I will be watching the worship post from now on.I may need some new IEM's I have Shure 315's now that will do but some custom ones would be colI haven't spent my Christmas money yet.You people can let me know which to buy.Thanks Billy K

Congrats! Welcome to being a former secular musician now actively playing in a worship band. You won't regret it. But start separating your old ways of thinking from the rock band world. Trust me... you're more likely to get offended if you keep it. Playing worship is almost completely the opposite of that world. Come with humility and just bring your talent with you. Leave expectation, "experience" and any other part of that old way of thinking behind you. It'll save you a LOT of time. Been there. Done that.

Good luck!

[Paladin54]

Originally Posted by caeman

When I would run soundboard, I will give the finnicky musicians what they want...in their monitor...which may not be the same thing that goes to the house. I never tell them otherwise.

Ha ha. I always did the same also. You can have whatever sound and mix you want in the monitor but I control the house and it got the sound I wanted.

[Paladin54]

My praise band plays this week but I will be running sound not playing bass. Kinda disappointed but I am here to serve as needed.

Due to my work schedule I work every other Sunday so I can't always be involved. We've been looking for someone to take over sound on a regular basis so I can play bass when I am available but so far no luck and I am needed for sound.

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by caeman

When I would run soundboard, I will give the finnicky musicians what they want...in their monitor...which may not be the same thing that goes to the house. I never tell them otherwise.

Nice. Oldest soundman trick in the book...

[caeman]

"Can I have more reverb?"

"Sure thing"

"Hey, sounds nice!"

*out in the house, they hear the clean signal, which actually sounds better*