The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club part 23

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by Crazy_Climer

...our pastor has been known to say, "are you saved? Then you aren't the one I'm trying to reach!" It isn't meant in a spiteful way, as he's a very good pastor, to those of us in the Church... but his focus is on those that historically haven't been "in the Church".

Sounds like he's lost sight of his mission or he's out of place. As a pastor, his ministry is TO the church and the members of it. NOT to the lost. Evangelists have the ministry of reaching the lost. Anyone of us can be an evangelist (including a pastor but also including YOU and me); you don't have to be a professional like Billy Graham. You don't have to be a pastor to explain the plan of salvation through Jesus Christ to someone either.

I don't know your pastor so I'm not trying to attack him personally, but for him to say "Are you saved? Then you aren't the one I'm trying to reach!" Is simply wrong in his current position.

If he isn't trying to reach you in the pew because you're already saved, then WHO IS supposed to be reaching you? Who IS supposed to be teaching you? Is that NOT what a pastor's ministry is?

One of the greatest faults of the modern church is this idea that the church is supposed to save souls. That WE as individual Christians don't necessarily have to know how or have the courage to witness Christ to the lost...because we can simply bring them to church and let the pastor tell them. If we can just get them into the building then we've done our part. That is NOT at all what the Bible teaches.

The pastor's job is the teach the Word to the body of believers so that YOU can go out and carry on converstations and bring people to conversion. Church is like a gynmasium to a wrestler. A wrester goes to the gym to get strong and learn techniques so he can win matches. He doesn't bring his opponents into the gym to wrestle against the coach! Your coach's job is to equip the saints (that's you) to carry out the ministry of reconcilliation (explaining salvation to the lost). Your coach has been saying that his job is to wrestle your opponents. That's madness! It's great that he wants to be on the front line but his job is to push YOU to the front line because being on the front line forces you to walk more closely with God...and his job as a pastor is to aide you in learning how to walk more closely with God.

If the pastor's job is to save souls, then whose job is it to teach you the Word of God?

[SoVeryTired]

We're probably straying outside of our boundaries here. But I'd say you're both right to an extent. The Great Commission refers to going into all the world and making disciples - that involves both evangelism and teaching.

So, are we going for the record of how many pages we can get in a thread before the new one starts?

[jmclearnon]

... In that scenario, what happens to the people who are not from 'church' backgrounds or who are saved who walk into the church?? It really depends what type of church he is tending to, to understand what areas that he should focus on more heavily.

If its a church with loads of non-Christians flowing in and out every week there should be a heavy influence on trying to spread the good news....... However you DO need services that teach people the word of God so the church community will grow. IMO a lot of churches focus on one area far too much and tend to neglect certain other areas.

Nobody is perfect and we are all going to do things differently. Just keep studying and praying and you'll start figuring these things out. (well some of them)

[SoVeryTired]

A Sunday off for our band this coming week but I'm playing with the youth band on Friday night:

Jump Around (Planetshakers)
We Are The Free (Matt Redman)
To Know Your Name (Hillsong)
I Surrender (Hillsong)

Jump Around is a song that I'm really not a fan of. I feel like the House of Pain version has about the same depth to it. However it's not my role to select the songs but to help deliver them. I've decided that the songs I like less are the ones I need to practice more and really get into so that I can find some inspiration in the music and play them with all my heart. Fortunately Jump Around is quite fun to play and funkier than most of the stuff we play. I'm unleashing my inner Flea on it.

[Paladin54]

My band practices tonight and plays this Sunday. I'm out of town for work all week and work this Sunday so no bass for me.

I did take my bass with me to the hotel so I can practice this week. I get a lot of down time in the hotel and need the distraction.

[Crazy_Climer]

Originally Posted by totallyfrozen

Sounds like he's lost sight of his mission or he's out of place. As a pastor, his ministry is TO the church and the members of it. NOT to the lost. Evangelists have the ministry of reaching the lost. Anyone of us can be an evangelist (including a pastor but also including YOU and me); you don't have to be a professional like Billy Graham. You don't have to be a pastor to explain the plan of salvation through Jesus Christ to someone either.

I don't know your pastor so I'm not trying to attack him personally, but for him to say "Are you saved? Then you aren't the one I'm trying to reach!" Is simply wrong in his current position.

If he isn't trying to reach you in the pew because you're already saved, then WHO IS supposed to be reaching you? Who IS supposed to be teaching you? Is that NOT what a pastor's ministry is?

One of the greatest faults of the modern church is this idea that the church is supposed to save souls. That WE as individual Christians don't necessarily have to know how or have the courage to witness Christ to the lost...because we can simply bring them to church and let the pastor tell them. If we can just get them into the building then we've done our part. That is NOT at all what the Bible teaches.

The pastor's job is the teach the Word to the body of believers so that YOU can go out and carry on converstations and bring people to conversion. Church is like a gynmasium to a wrestler. A wrester goes to the gym to get strong and learn techniques so he can win matches. He doesn't bring his opponents into the gym to wrestle against the coach! Your coach's job is to equip the saints (that's you) to carry out the ministry of reconcilliation (explaining salvation to the lost). Your coach has been saying that his job is to wrestle your opponents. That's madness! It's great that he wants to be on the front line but his job is to push YOU to the front line because being on the front line forces you to walk more closely with God...and his job as a pastor is to aide you in learning how to walk more closely with God.

If the pastor's job is to save souls, then whose job is it to teach you the Word of God?

I can see that viewpoint-- and I came to realize that I don't believe I quoted our Pastor quite well enough.

He does teach us with his preaching, but tries to take out the "Christian-ese", to make it easier for someone who just came in "off the street" and may just be starting their journey.

Essentially, the "I'm not trying to reach you" comment is more that he doesn't wish to change the format of the service just because some long-time Christian is complaining about the music. If that music brings someone in, who then hears The Word spoken in real-life terms... that's his focus. But, he then takes it further by equipping those of us who stay for going out and spreading The Word in our own lives, and our areas of influence.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by HereIGoAgain

One of things I've noticed and have been struggling with for over a year is this: we call our P+W team a "ministry." To me, a ministry implies an attempt to reach people. The bits about limiting the song selection, Abelton, and many other topics make me ask the question:

Is a praise and worship team really a ministry or is it an ornament?

My desire to use music for the Lord has never been stronger. My desire to be an ornament has never existed.

Yes, I believe it is definitely a ministry. One only has to look at the faces of those worshipping and praising God in the congregation to see sure evidence that a worship team has the ability and ministry responsibility to help facilitate a worship experience among those who choose to participate.

I don't think it's an ornament but I do think that some churches rely heavily on the "bling" that technology provides (computerized lighting, videos, animated backgrounds in projected lyrics, intricate stage sets etc.). Combined, these elements can sometimes result in a bit of a "show".

"The medium is the message" is a phrase coined by Canadian philosopher Marshall McLuhan, meaning that the form of a medium embeds itself in the message, creating a symbiotic relationship by which the medium influences how the message is perceived. (wiki)

I enjoy it as much as the next person when the faders are up , music's grooving, the subs are pumping, the congregation is clapping, and the soundman's makin' it all sound great. Good times!

That being said, sometimes I'd like to see some worship leaders ease up on the throttle a bit, change it up with some quieter, more reflective and pastoral numbers. Maybe even salt in a couple of hymns, older choruses or country gospel into the mix. In my view, electric guitar, drums and bass can (and should) sit out every once in a while. Are people so A-D-D and distracted that we need the "jolts per minute" amped up to 10 most of the time?

The times I've witnessed worship teams throttle back and do this (it's 3 different churches I'm thinking of here) it's almost always had a very good response from the congregation. I've been thinking that we should do it a bit more often.

I guess I'm sounding like an old man to some. My gray hair would certainly confirm that assumption

It used to be that hymns and choruses that were accompanied primarily by piano and organ and maybe the very occasional acoustic guitar constituted the "mainstream" worship experience for many years in North America. Now that style of worship is "out of style" and practiced by fewer and fewer churches.

Today, the "mainstream" worship style requires a full band, playing contemporary choruses and songs from Christian radio with more of a "rock" feel and employs as much technology as the church's budget can afford. It's a great new market for Roland, Yamaha and providers of PA products and worship seminars. It's a whole business category. It is now the new "mainstream", the new normal, and is seen as being some sort of "minimal requirement" for churches to offer in order to cater to the younger generation and the unchurched.

To me, once something has become mainstream I tend to start looking around for what the next thing is.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

...I enjoy it as much as the next person when the faders are up , music's grooving, the subs are pumping, the congregation is clapping, and the soundman's makin' it all sound great. Good times!

That being said, sometimes I'd like to see some worship leaders ease up on the throttle a bit, change it up with some quieter, more reflective and pastoral numbers.

...Are people so A-D-D and distracted that we need the "jolts per minute" amped up to 10 most of the time?

The times I've witnessed worship teams throttle back and do this (it's 3 different churches I'm thinking of here) it's almost always had a very good response from the congregation. I've been thinking that we should do it a bit more often.

In my mind, this isn't just a "church thing", it's simply good programming.

Unless there's some "light and shade" to provide contrast, any fixed intensity level, no matter how high, will become the new normal.

One of my favourite teachers at Humber used to drill us relentlessly, forcing us to widen our dynamic range. It seemed ridiculous during rehearsal- he'd be pushing us to literally play whisper quiet during the "small" passages, and then flogging us until our fingers bled on the louder sections. No matter how quietly we played, he wanted less, and no matter how hard we hit on the crescendos, he literally screamed at us for more.

Come concert day, it suddenly made perfect sense- he would ease up on his conducting during the final performance, yet his ensembles soared like no others, and hit with a punch that was breathtaking. Large-group jazz at it's finest...

Seems like a good idea in worship, too...

[mkandolf]

Just notified j-raj, get ready for part 24!

[mkandolf]

Welcome new members BottomThumper and astrobass63 to the thread. Your numbers are listed here:

1203 BottomThumper
1204 astrobass63

Last ten members added to the thread membership:

1195 mrsr
1196 Bakkster_Man
1197 foxxiroxx
1198 gmliebau
1199 Shanebo
1200 csanders
1201 cosmonautsix
1202 ShowLow
1203 BottomThumper
1204 astrobass63

Please put in your post if you want a number or not for the Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club. Without it, I may not realize you need a number.

Thanks, Mike.

[jmclearnon]

We do that in worship, that must be an American thing. Its great tbh there are some services where everything is chilled out and pretty quiet.

Occasionally the more experienced musicians do a worship concert of usually at least 20 songs. in that there are at least 5-6 reflective songs (usually i end up doing loads of instrument swapping lol).

It's great!

PS if your going full throttle i wonder what communion is like!

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

... Where we had more than one person, they swapped off, taking short "shifts", so there was never more than one of each instrument on the platform: electric guitar, percussion (Djembe), acoustic guitar, keys, and bass. There were vocal mics for the players who could use them.

...The rest of the group (about 25-30 people?) took turns coming up from the floor for vocals and scripture reading.

...Having scripture read before and during every phase of the session, kept everyone's attention focused and grounded.

...there was no sense that people were ... singing or playing for each other's approval. It struck me as a perfect example of what people mean when they talk about keeping worship "vertical".

...There was a strong sensation of a heart-level connection, not just with the people in my immediate vicinity, but with everyone in the room, and Jesus, not above it all watching, but right at the center.

That feeling wasn't static, but built up throughout the hour and a half or so that we were worshipping.

I mentioned a few pages back, that we had training for a Kansas City-style spontaneous worship ministry last week.

Sunday was interesting, because nearly a third of the 150 or so people in church, had been in on the training.

The result was a kind of spillover into Sunday morning worship. I would have thought it was just me, except that numerous others, including my (very) non-musical wife commented favourably on the difference.

This is an excellent illustration of one of the basic principles of music education: if you want to raise something to a new level, trying harder at the same old thing will only take you so far. For real breakthrough, you need to get past honing old skills, and actually stretch out into new territory.

[j-raj]

Off to the next thread.