The Praise and Worship Band Bassists Club part 23

[jesusrocksbass]

Cool! I play for several local churches, mainly filling in since I'm a traveling college student. However I have played for one of the LifeChurch campuses. I love the Lord and worshipping Him.

[Sethbass]

@hereIgoagain that seems to be the pervailing attitude is that the band and WL are performing but for me getting into the praise with all my might... I get excited and dance and enjoy the presence of God! Then it gets tampered with some old blue grass throw back after our new "time frame" has ended! It is actually embarrassing...i came to this church with the WL who is paid staff, we were brought in with idea that the pastor wanted to be more up to date if you will, so we basically brought in an entire ready to play semi pro band who all loves the Lord and worshiping! We updated the sound system, brought in lights and what have you! Was great fir bout two years. Attendance went from bout 65 to pretty close to 300!! Then a brick wall!!! Pastor said no more lights, play more hyms and turn everything down! He blames the worship team for the lack of attendnce but apparently doesn't see that when he started in on the "it's too loud!" Or the "do more hyms" the attendance fell way off and we're back down to about 100?? Not sure what to do!

[khutch]

Originally Posted by Sethbass

Long time listener first time caller!! :-( rant! Our Pastor is over taking the worship!!! He is about 62 yo and the other day after a wednesday service whereas it is just the WL (singing and playing accoustic guitar) and me on bass! Makes a nice atmosphere.. Well the pastor after we were funished, grabbed the guitar and started singing Gimme that old time religion!!! 😮😮😮😮 been here for about three years but there def starting to be a struggle with styles... His " theme" for the upcoming year is forward to the basics??? IE more of the old time religion!!!

I don't think you are giving us enough to work with here. The one incident you describe doesn't seem alarming. Apparently you have a 62 yo pastor who can play guitar. That isn't so bad. Going forward to the basics is a step a great many churches would do well to take these days. The old time religion is what it is all about. But that does not mean that only the old time music can be used. The spiritual stand of a church is a grave matter and it must not be allowed to stray from the ancient core values of the faith. The form that the worship music takes is completely decoupled from that though.

Now I am not saying that your assessment of the direction the pastor intends to drive the worship music is wrong, only that you have not given us enough details to see that, or specifically how we might be able to help you change your pastor's views. Hey, I'm 61 (almost) and I can tell you for sure that if you ain't dead yet you ain't too old to rock 'n roll!! I think that is how the New International Version of Tull puts it. Music of all kinds is needed to attract all kinds of people to a church. Worship flows out of hearts dedicated to God, no music is, of itself, worshipful. A worshipful heart can worship with any music -- or none.

Our worship pastor definitely coordinates our worship music to the theme of the sermons week by week. The musical styles he uses to do that are all over the map.

Ken

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by Sethbass

@hereIgoagain that seems to be the pervailing attitude is that the band and WL are performing but for me getting into the praise with all my might... I get excited and dance and enjoy the presence of God! Then it gets tampered with some old blue grass throw back after our new "time frame" has ended! It is actually embarrassing...i came to this church with the WL who is paid staff, we were brought in with idea that the pastor wanted to be more up to date if you will, so we basically brought in an entire ready to play semi pro band who all loves the Lord and worshiping! We updated the sound system, brought in lights and what have you! Was great fir bout two years. Attendance went from bout 65 to pretty close to 300!! Then a brick wall!!! Pastor said no more lights, play more hyms and turn everything down! He blames the worship team for the lack of attendnce but apparently doesn't see that when he started in on the "it's too loud!" Or the "do more hyms" the attendance fell way off and we're back down to about 100?? Not sure what to do!

I don't have all the answers. What I do know is that while God's word is timeless and always relevant, there are those who don't see God's word as relevant to the times. My opinion is that a worship team can help motivate the idea of the relevancy of Scripture.

Our viewpoints must be supported with in-context Scripture. Everything that I've read in the Bible related to worship and music does not support a "low key" idea. If anyone can offer a counterpoint using Scripture references in proper historical and literary context, I'd appreciate it.

At our church, we have encountered a pushback on the more energetic stuff and the "modern" stuff. However, the congregation loves it. Our praise team is exclusively volunteer. Our WL is not a staff position. When it's one guitar, one voice leading worship, a few people might comment that we should do that more often. We recently did an up-tempo and high energy selection, and we got very positive feedback - positive to the point that it influenced the song selection for this week.

One more thing: country/gospel and bluegrass/newgrass can also be effective vehicles, but it has to be done with the right motivation instead of the motivation of "showing us young punks how it's really done." (Not saying this is anyone's motivation, just saying...)

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50XZGDgjAlw

How can what I see help you? I don't know. The best advice I can give is commit it to prayer and try to learn what God has in mind. I need to do the same on my end.

[Sethbass]

@khutch yeah man... For sur i dig what your saying and this, unfortunately seems to be a big clash if cultures.. But the problem is more with the fact he hired the WL and we all playes with the WL on different levels at various times of our journeys... So the WL put the team together based on what the Pastor seemed to have been asking for. More modern feel, heavy on the visual and multi media and the all of the sudden did a 180. Yeah it does feel as if he plays his blue grass songs to kinda "put the country back" into place and it isn't just me who feels it!!! I am the band leader and have a great relationship with the WL and I kno for a fact some of the meetings the Pastor has had with him about the worship service have been very demeaning... I mean i don't mean to sound this way but we all left previously fairly good situations and I am not one to Church hop!! But overall even outside of the worship experience I am not getting fed the word,.. He pretty much fired the dynamic assoc pastor and he is preaching the same four sermons week after week... Lol alright. It's late and i have to be at the church by 8 a.m thanks for everyones input!

[kbaxter26]

Originally Posted by khutch

Music of all kinds is needed to attract all kinds of people to a church. Worship flows out of hearts dedicated to God, no music is, of itself, worshipful. A worshipful heart can worship with any music -- or none.
Ken

Amen Ken. Worship comes from the heart of man!!! EVen if we sound horrible when we sing(Like me) praise to Our God it is still sweet music to His ears, if it is coming from our heart! On the other hand. If someone is a GREAT musician and all that, yet the worship is not from his/her heart...what use is it? It may please the ears of man, but not our God. After all, who are we trying to please? So, unless we do it ALL for the glory of God and true worship of Him...it is done in vain.

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by kbaxter26

Amen Ken. Worship comes from the heart of man!!! EVen if we sound horrible when we sing(Like me) praise to Our God it is still sweet music to His ears, if it is coming from our heart! On the other hand. If someone is a GREAT musician and all that, yet the worship is not from his/her heart...what use is it? It may please the ears of man, but not our God. After all, who are we trying to please? So, unless we do it ALL for the glory of God and true worship of Him...it is done in vain.

At face value, this is true 100%. A true worshipful heart doesn't care if he's got a packed house or an empty room. It doesn't care if he's doing a 400 year old hymn or the latest by Skillet. A true worshipful heart is playing to the Lord.

That being said, some might say the same thoughts you did as a "cop out" for doing the same formulaic overdone-to-death CCW standards or the K-Love playlist week after week when a team member suggests something fresh or in a non-typical genre (such as the grunge/hard rock I joked about earlier). Some might use that as a diplomatic way of saying "This is what we do at this church, toe the line or walk."

When I've had conversations like that in person, I'm a little hesitant to call shenanigans as I don't have the knowledge of all that's going on in the other person's heart or the 6 inches between their ears. All I can really stand by or be accountable for is what's going on in mine.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by HereIGoAgain

At face value, this is true 100%. A true worshipful heart doesn't care if he's got a packed house or an empty room. It doesn't care if he's doing a 400 year old hymn or the latest by Skillet. A true worshipful heart is playing to the Lord.

That being said, some might say the same thoughts you did as a "cop out" for doing the same formulaic overdone-to-death CCW standards or the K-Love playlist week after week when a team member suggests something fresh or in a non-typical genre (such as the grunge/hard rock I joked about earlier). Some might use that as a diplomatic way of saying "This is what we do at this church, toe the line or walk."

Sorry, but this is going to be a long one.

A couple of pages back, I mentioned the example of a church that was going through the "worship wars" over musical styles. However, I didn't share the context, or the ending of the story.

A committed minority in the church felt that organ music and old hymns had become an idol, and needed to be torn down because they were blinding the congregation to the possibility of modern, accessible, biblically and socially relevant worship. They also believed that the congregation was stagnating, and couldn't reach a waiting world because they were stuck in the past.

An equally committed minority believed that the "new" music was shallow, poorly written, and lacked a biblical foundation. They also believed that the people pushing the new music weren't capable of playing it properly, had no business being up on the platform, and were going to decimate attendance if they weren't stopped.

As newcomer to church life and a jaded professional musician, I found both positions amusing.

This was around 1994, and the "new" music sounded an awful lot like Peter, Paul and Mary to me. And it did seem shallow. One song that particularly annoyed me, basically consisted of repeating the phrase "God is so big" ad nauseum. This was relevance? The organ crowd seemed equally out of it from my Anglo-Canadian perspective. It was a largely Dutch congregation, and the hymns they were defending seemed like a bunch of poorly-written unknowns: no "O Come All Ye Faithful", no Amazing Grace", etc.

The pastor's solution seemed like madness, at least to me as a musician. He was disassembling the only good modern praise team along with the two lousy ones, and throwing all of them into the same rotating pool with the blue-hairs that played the organ and piano material. I thought he was asking too much of a bunch of untrained volunteers.

What I couldn't see from my position as an outsider, was that these people had been fighting each other for years without finding a middle ground. Sadly, there were rifts even within families, with mom or dad on on side, and son or daughter on the other. The pastor discerned pride and arrogance on both sides, and saw that the endless strife was sucking the joy out of what had been a thriving congregation.

The new approach that seemed so impractical from my perspective as a performer and an entertainer, turned out to be a masterful exercise in tearing down walls and building consensus.

Now that variety was the "new normal", no-one felt threatened by the old music OR the new. If you didn't like what was being played this week, you knew that there'd be something different the next. Meanwhile, the seemingly random pairing of musicians from both sides of the argument brought out some unexpectedly beautiful new combinations.

Just as importantly, it broke a performance-minded spirit that that had intimidated many people in the congregation. Now that the pressure was off, the worship team swelled from 20 regulars, to about 45 of all ages. Encouraged by their occasional opportunities to lead Sunday worship, the youth band finally took off.

Best of all, attendance started to go up, and the newcomers stayed. There was repentance on both sides of the "style war", and a new spirit of fellowship and understanding developed. There were many testimonies of healing. With the addition of many new Canadians, the demographic changed, and the church stopped being a Dutch-Canadian "ghetto".

The payoff for me personally, was that I came to Christ in the middle of the transition. Not because of what was happening to the music, but because of what I saw happening to relationships.

And that is all I have to add to the current conversation: as musicians, we can often get tunnel vision, and fail to see other contexts to what is happening in church. Sometimes what looks like stubbornness or complacency, may simply be fear of the unknown. Or even wisdom about the situation.

Any time you feel angry about other people's behaviour, it's a good idea to take step back, and examine your own position. You can't change what's in another man's heart, or even read it accurately, but you can change what's in yours.

Besides, what makes things work in the long run, is not defending a position, or fighting for what's "right"; it's following Jesus' model. He often found unconventional solutions to problems by keeping his heart open to God's word, and by winning people over through acts of radical, sacrificial hospitality and humility.

[papilgee4evaeva]

^ Thanks for sharing, Steve. Awesome.

[Sethbass]

Yeah man right on Steve... Thanks for the insight!! 👍👍

[rotis]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

A committed minority in the church felt that organ music and old hymns had become an idol, and needed to be torn down because they were blinding the congregation to the possibility of modern, accessible, biblically and socially relevant worship.

I love this line of reasoning, "it's not me that dislikes your musical selection, it's God. " The way the pastor handled it is the sign of a true shepard.

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by rotis

I love this line of reasoning, "it's not me that dislikes your musical selection, it's God. " The way the pastor handled it is the sign of a true shepard.

IME it's usually the proponents of the organs and 400 year old hymns that use this argument to enlighten us "young punks."

In regards to the "blue hairs vs. young punks" dilemma, the only thing I can say is that the answer is the parable of the workers paid equally. There is no seniority in the kingdom of Heaven, and there should not be seniority in the church. I can see why the pastor did what he did.

[mkandolf]

Steve, thanks for that wonderful post.

[vinnie6]

Today, (Jan. 13), I played my second worship Sunday of my relatively new bass career. I have been a professional musician my whole life, serving in the Army Band as a saxophonist, violin major in undergrad, and currently a junior high band director for the last 15 years. Just 19 months ago I started studying bass guitar for something fresh and new. What a thrill! Today I played on "O For A Thousand Tongues to Sing", "Our God Saves", "Cornerstone", and "Center". I thank the Lord for giving me musical talent!!

What does it take to get a number?

[SoVeryTired]

A great morning today, with the new bass being put through its paces and passing the test. I learned that a pick on the bridge pickup is too trebly for regular use. I also found that my pedalboard was introducing quite a lot of noise so I just bypassed all of it except the tuner. I may go back to just bringing the tuner and forgetting the effects - this bass deserves to be heard in its purest form!

[mkandolf]

New members, welcome to the flock! Here are your numbers:

1183 Skeeter1
1184 coyoteboy
1185 Sethbass
1186 jesusrocksbass
1187 vinnie6


Last ten #'s added to the flock:

1178 MrL
1179 bass.strings
1180 TjerkBerg
1181 kevbethphx
1182 3mrhythm
1183 Skeeter1
1184 coyoteboy
1185 Sethbass
1186 jesusrocksbass
1187 vinnie6

[SoVeryTired]

I was disappointed to be on electric six string soprano bass this coming Sunday having just got the new bass. But then I realised I'm playing with the youth band on Friday. Happy days! I think the both-pickups-in-series mode will be getting some use...

[HereIGoAgain]

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

I was disappointed to be on electric six string soprano bass this coming Sunday having just got the new bass. But then I realised I'm playing with the youth band on Friday. Happy days! I think the both-pickups-in-series mode will be getting some use...

Electric 6-string soprano bass???? You're allowed to say "guitar."

[mtb777]

Wow something happened to my phone and the app wouldn't open and the app just blocked so I reinstalled it and whalaaaah. 12 pages to catch up on and a new page. Wheeeew. I feel better even though I'm sick as a dog! Good stuff.

[ExaltBass]

@ Steve - really great post, as usual. I really appreciate the thought you put into them.

Today all went well... until both the drummer and I lost our IEMs in the middle of a song! We're both on the same mix. It was panic for a few seconds as we ripped them off and found our spot... a second or two at most. Hammering root with the left hand... Another bullet dodged! There were other team members (not on rotation this week) who later said they didn't hear any derail, but our panic was a riot... oh well!