Ralphe Armstrong: Bass of Doom Story

[Dr. Cheese]

Ralphe Armstrong interview


Ralphe Armstrong has told the story of how he got the gig for John McLaughlin using a fretless and Jaco did not, so Jaco went fretless after that because of him. He has told that sotry enough that I think there is some truth there, but I just think that Pastorius had been playing fretless for a long time before then. That said, maybe he did make that particular bass fretless after not getting the McLaughlin gig. Armstrong also mentioned that McLaughlin liked the fretless precision tone better than the sound Jaco got. I can see that.

[JimK]

Everything I have read-
Jaco went fretless during his CC Riders stint.

[Phalex]

Great interview! Ralphe Armstrong has always been one of my idols. Monster player!

[Smokin' Toaster]

Ralphe shined on "Jean-Luc Ponty Live". Great, great bass playing.

[Clark Dark]

"a fretless neck from Fender for $75.00"......dayum !!!

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Clark Dark

"a fretless neck from Fender for $75.00"......dayum !!!

A new P-bass was probably $350-$450 back then too.

[Rebop]

Jaco went fretless around 71 or 72. Nothing to do with McLaughlin. And considering Jaco played upright before he played fretless, he was no stranger to the fretless technique.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Rebop

Jaco went fretless around 71 or 72. Nothing to do with McLaughlin. And considering Jaco played upright before he played fretless, he was no stranger to the fretless technique.

From what I read, I don't think he got very far on acoustic before his shattered.

[Dr. Cheese]

All evidence I know points to Jaco going fretless well before the McLaughlin audition. I wonder if John McLaughlin has ever spoken on what happened. I don't know anything about Ralphe Armstrong except that he is a great player who opted for a lower profile to raise his family. I wonder if this story is a way of letting people know that there was fretless before Jaco. In fact, several great Detroit bassists like Armstrong, Lamont Johnson, Fernaundo Saunders, and Michael Henderson, all did great work on fretless that was decidedly Un-Jaco. Of course, Alphonso Johnson was playing fretless in Weather Report itself before Jaco.

[RickC]

Interesting story and the first I've heard anything about Jaco in connection with MKII Mahavishnu. Is there any mention of Jaco trying out for that gig anywhere else?

/rick

[Mojo-Man]

Originally Posted by Rebop

Jaco went fretless around 71 or 72. Nothing to do with McLaughlin. And considering Jaco played upright before he played fretless, he was no stranger to the fretless technique.

This is true, I seen Jaco playing fretless in Fla, in 1972.
Two years before Ralphe tried out for McLaughlin.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Ralphe Armstrong has told the story of how he got the gig for John McLaughlin using a fretless and Jaco did not, so Jaco went fretless after that because of him.

Something's not right in that story...and it's not just the dates of when Jaco went fretless.

My understanding is that Ralphe was already playing in a band with Narada Michael Walden before Mahavishnu 2, and after Mclaughlin hired Narada, Ralph was essentially a shoo-in. iow, no highly competitive auditions, more like just "Hey John, you should check out my buddy Ralphe"

[jerry]

Alphonso was even playing fretless pre Weather Report with the band Catalyst in the early '70's.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

A new P-bass was probably $350-$450 back then too.

...bought my '64 P-bass in the Spring of 1975 for $200 (still have it, albeit with a major face lift).

My parents almost bought me a P-bass for Xmas 1974. Price was right at $300 (my mom haggled with the owner).
I called the deal off...told my parents I wanted a pre-CBS P-bass.
So I was on my own.

[mwbassace]

I read somewhere that Jaco did not remove the frets from his bass. But i can't remember if the story I read said he got it that way or someone did it for him.

[Rebop]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

From what I read, I don't think he got very far on acoustic before his shattered.

It never shattered. It developed some problems from the humidity and some unchecked old damage, yes. However, the bass that "blew up" on him (as he put it) is still alive and well.
He played upright for a few years and was actually getting a few gigs on it before he went 100% electric. He was doing pretty well with the bow too. Even post Weather Report he had a Juzek upright in the house (just an interesting point/fact methinks albeit irrelevant ).

I think a lot of what Ralphe Armstrong is saying is only partially fact. Kind of creating some lore for himself; and rightfully so. I personally have never heard of him. Never liked McLaughlin or Ponty so was never exposed to his playing.

Around the time Ralphe Armstrong said this was happening Jaco was playing a lot with Ira Sullivan and just starting up his rapport with Pat Metheney. And already had been playing fretless for quite some time. I call BS on Ralphe.

Originally Posted by mwbassace

I read somewhere that Jaco did not remove the frets from his bass. But i can't remember if the story I read said he got it that way or someone did it for him.

Jaco was very cryptic about this. Sometimes he would say he defretted the bass of doom himself with a butterknife; sometimes he would say he bought it like that and the guy did a bad job. Either way, he was known to rip frets out of loaned basses and fill the slots with putty even while on the road with Wayne Cochran in the early 70's.


EDIT: I try not to say "from what I've read". Most of my Jaco info came straight from either one of his family members or former bandmates and/or other musicians that knew him around here. I'll ask their take on the Ralphe Armstrong statements. I think Randy Bernsen may know for sure.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Rebop

It never shattered. It developed some problems from the humidity and some unchecked old damage, yes. However, the bass that "blew up" on him (as he put it) is still alive and well.
He played upright for a few years and was actually getting a few gigs on it before he went 100% electric. He was doing pretty well with the bow too. Even post Weather Report he had a Juzek upright in the house (just an interesting point/fact methinks albeit irrelevant ).

I think a lot of what Ralphe Armstrong is saying is only partially fact. Kind of creating some lore for himself; and rightfully so. I personally have never heard of him. Never liked McLaughlin or Ponty so was never exposed to his playing.

Around the time Ralphe Armstrong said this was happening Jaco was playing a lot with Ira Sullivan and just starting up his rapport with Pat Metheney. And already had been playing fretless for quite some time. I call BS on Ralphe.

Jaco was very cryptic about this. Sometimes he would say he defretted the bass of doom himself with a butterknife; sometimes he would say he bought it like that and the guy did a bad job. Either way, he was known to rip frets out of loaned basses and fill the slots with putty even while on the road with Wayne Cochran in the early 70's.

EDIT: I try not to say "from what I've read". Most of my Jaco info came straight from either one of his family members or former bandmates and/or other musicians that knew him around here. I'll ask their take on the Ralphe Armstrong statements. I think Randy Bernsen may know for sure.

I think Armstrong may be guilty of burnishing his legend with the Jaco story. It's kind of like Louis Johnson swearing that he never heard slap when he started playing despite the fact he was a top forty cover musician and Sly and Later Graham Central Station were huge bands right in California where he grew up.

That said Ralphe Armstrong is an incredible bassist with Stanley Clarke level chops on acoustic and electric who probably would have liked more notoriety than he has gotten although it was his choice to slow down and put family first.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Armstrong also mentioned that McLaughlin liked the fretless precision tone better than the sound Jaco got.

Last night I pulled out a Guitar Player mag from March 1975 (Dickey Betts cover).
There's a PRO's REPLY (used to be in the very front of the magazine) with Ralphe Armstong. When I read this back in '75, I thought "Dammit...this guy is only a 2 years older & he's playing with Mahavishnu"! That did not compute!

Anyway, here's some snippets-

What type of equipment do you use?
"I use a fretless bass with a Jazz Bass body & a Precision neck. For amplification, I use a Sunn Model T amp with one cabinet. It's all I need".

(The picture is clearly a Jazz Bass with a light natural wood body. The neck is from a fretless P-bass. Not sure where the fretless P-bass tone was coming from...unless there was a switch?).

Do you use any distortion devices?
"Yes, a Maestro Bass Brass Master. It makes the bass sound like a trombone. I love it. It's the only device that I like other than Maestro's Octave Box".


How did you get the gig with Mahavishnu's group?
"Michael Walden & I were playing in a group called 'The McGuire Sisters' & we were on a farm in Sheffield, Massachusetts. Michael was just getting into Sri Chinmoy & he met Mahavishnu. So John came up & we jammed & he dug it. He said he would call me & he did, the day after his group broke up. That was the first time I ever met the cat-we just had the vibes, so we got it on"!

How did you cue each other for tempo changes?
"You don't have to cue, you just have to feel it. Once you've rehearsed the material, you get it down as a group. If you want to count it out, you can; I don't have to-I can feel it".

This is almost the entire article...the rest deals with Armstrong's love & preference for the Acoustic bass over the Electric bass!

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by JimK

Last night I pulled out a Guitar Player mag from March 1975 (Dickey Betts cover).
There's a PRO's REPLY (used to be in the very front of the magazine) with Ralphe Armstong. When I read this back in '75, I thought "Dammit...this guy is only a 2 years older & he's playing with Mahavishnu"! That did not compute!

Anyway, here's some snippets-

What type of equipment do you use?
"I use a fretless bass with a Jazz Bass body & a Precision neck. For amplification, I use a Sunn Model T amp with one cabinet. It's all I need".

(The picture is clearly a Jazz Bass with a light natural wood body. The neck is from a fretless P-bass. Not sure where the fretless P-bass tone was coming from...unless there was a switch?).

Do you use any distortion devices?
"Yes, a Maestro Bass Brass Master. It makes the bass sound like a trombone. I love it. It's the only device that I like other than Maestro's Octave Box".


How did you get the gig with Mahavishnu's group?
"Michael Walden & I were playing in a group called 'The McGuire Sisters' & we were on a farm in Sheffield, Massachusetts. Michael was just getting into Sri Chinmoy & he met Mahavishnu. So John came up & we jammed & he dug it. He said he would call me & he did, the day after his group broke up. That was the first time I ever met the cat-we just had the vibes, so we got it on"!

How did you cue each other for tempo changes?
"You don't have to cue, you just have to feel it. Once you've rehearsed the material, you get it down as a group. If you want to count it out, you can; I don't have to-I can feel it".

This is almost the entire article...the rest deals with Armstrong's love & preference for the Acoustic bass over the Electric bass!

Thanks! This certainly puts things in a diferent light.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

It's kind of like Louis Johnson swearing that he never heard slap when he started playing despite the fact he was a top forty cover musician and Sly and Later Graham Central Station were huge bands right in California where he grew up.

...also in this March '75 Guitar Player issue is Chuck Rainey's "Modern Bass Guitar" column. This one deals with, what Rainey calls, "The Wood Sound".

Rainey sez "...this month, I'll describe thumb slapping of the E & A strings & I'll also explain how to alternate the thumb slap with plucking the D & G strings. Done properly, this technique achieves the um-pah feel & sound of a tuba or French horn.
Larry Graham, formerly of Sly & The Family Stone & now with Graham Central Station, is the foremost electric bass innovator of this technique & is primarily resonsible for the success of the thumb & finger-style bass playing that produces this popular sound in today's music".