Sid Vicious

[Borknagar]

yea sid from sex pistols is terreble....
but he got the attitude

[Paul A]

What attitude? .. you mean so stoned he could'nt stand up most of the time?
Someone the world does not miss I reckon.

[Brendan]

Am I the only one who finds it a tad ironic that one of the founding voices of punk, a movement that's not supposed to be about image, kept Sid in the band only because of his image?

[old_skool]

I asume you fancy boy bands aswell then?

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by Brendan
Am I the only one who finds it a tad ironic that one of the founding voices of punk, a movement that's not supposed to be about image, kept Sid in the band only because of his image?

The Sex Pistols were all about image and Malcolm McLaren was basically into promoting his fashions - that's how the "band" started.

I never saw them play and never wanted to - they were fakes - Chris Spedding, an old rock and roller played guitar on their records - while they were busy decrying all boring old farts!

Punk was much better off without them and I saw loads of great bands who had the energy and songs and even attitude - without being frauds like the Pistols - I mean what did Sid do apart from take a load of drugs - nothing!!

So - I saw :

The Clash
Buzzcocks
Banshees
Damned
Stranglers
Adverts
X_Ray Spex

etc etc

Any of whom, were far more 'Punk' and far better bands who could play the Pistols off the stage any time!

[Brendan]

Quite aware of that, Bruce, I didn't say they were a good punk band, only that they were one of the founding voices.

[ConU]

Sid:we don't f****** care
John(he does'nt like to be called Johnny):it's not we don't f****** care,it's we don't care.
Sid:we don't f****** care.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by Brendan
Quite aware of that, Bruce, I didn't say they were a good punk band, only that they were one of the founding voices.

I thik you have to realise that Punk in England was very much about a fashion statement and attitude in the late 70s, as much as it was about music. I met a lot of punks who weren't into music and it was really an "Anti-Thatcher/Anti Establshment" thing.

Or there were punks who were into Reggae and other types of music - but attended the same demos and looked the same - it was about making a stamement - not always musical.

But McLaren was particularly cyncial and I think he was always just exploiting the situation to make money!!

[The Mock Turtle Regulator]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Punk was much better off without them and I saw loads of great bands who had the energy and songs and even attitude - without being frauds like the Pistols - So - I saw :

The Clash
Buzzcocks
Banshees
Damned
Stranglers
Adverts
X_Ray Spex

etc etc

Any of whom, were far more 'Punk' and far better bands who could play the Pistols off the stage any time!

if the Sex Pistols were fakes as you say, and not real punk, then how come it's well documented that their live appearances (when Glen Matlock was on bass) inspired so many other bands of the punk era- including Siouxsie & the banshees, Joy Division and the Clash- Joe Strummer was a long-haired pub-rocker with the 101ers before seeing the Pistols.

much as I like the Stranglers, they were more guilty of being "fakes"- a pub-rock band that jumped on the punk bandwaggon.

[brianrost]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Chris Spedding, an old rock and roller played guitar on their records - while they were busy decrying all boring old farts!

Worse than that...while he was later known for his rock playing, Spedding was an early jazz/fusion pioneer. The guy could really play!!! In fact he got into rock mostly for the $$$ after Jack Bruce fired him and went off to play with Leslie West

Spedding knew how to get down and dirty playing as if he knew no more than 3 chords and the blues box.

He played with some great bassists over he years: Jack Bruce, Andy Fraser, Busta Cherry Jones.

[moley]

Originally posted by The Mock Turtle Regulator
much as I like the Stranglers, they were more guilty of being "fakes"- a pub-rock band that jumped on the punk bandwaggon.

Ok, there's a song I like, that I thought was by The Stranglers (though I'm quite possibly remembering wrong) called Golden Brown.

It's hardly punk!

Yet they were a punk band, you say?

[The Mock Turtle Regulator]

"golden brown" was from 1982.
their 1977-78 material fitted in with the punk movement.

but when the Stranglers advertised for a 2nd guitarist around 1974, their ad read "soft-rock group require...."
...they didn't get a 2nd guitarist, instead they got keyboard player Dave Greenfield......


but back to Bruce's "Punk was much better off without them" comment, without the Sex Pistols, it's unlikely there'd have been a UK punk scene.
the story goes that Bernard Sumner and Peter Hook decided to form a band after watching a Pistols gig. I think the same goes for Siouxsie & the banshees. (also Siouxsie was at the infamous Bill Grundy show featuring the Pistols swearing following his leering at her)

re. Sid Vicious- he played drums (probably very badly) for Siouxsie & the banshees at their very first gig.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by moley


Ok, there's a song I like, that I thought was by The Stranglers (though I'm quite possibly remembering wrong) called Golden Brown.

It's hardly punk!

Yet they were a punk band, you say?

Well the Stranglers came to prominence in the punk era, although they were older and better musicians - but they had a genuine attitude and what you saw was what you got!

Jean-Jacques Burnel really did have "attitude" and was prepared to back it up - I don't think any of the Sex Pistols would have survived more than 30 seconds in a fight with him!!

Th Stranglers played loud aggressive music, sometimes mixed with Reggae influences and they attracted huge folowings of punks in the late 70s.

Their gig were incredible at this time and they really brought the house down - I remember one, where at the very start they were engulfed by a huge wave of gob at the start - didn't phase them at all! Bottle were hurtling everywhere, fights and stage invasions - by the end the ceilng was coming down and all the mics had been smashed - they carried on playing instrumentals while the place collapsed!!


Of course - as you say they mellowed out considerably later on in the 80s - but in 1977/78 they were definitely the "hardest" band on the circuit!!

[The Mock Turtle Regulator]

I post this assuming I'm not on your ignore list, and you read anything of what I wrote

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Jean-Jacques Burnel really did have "attitude" and was prepared to back it up - I don't think any of the Sex Pistols would have survived more than 30 seconds in a fight with him!!


Of course - as you say they mellowed out considerably later on in the 80s - but in 1977/78 they were definitely the "hardest" band on the circuit!!

so "hard" = punk?

there was an instance of a fight between the Stranglers the Clash and the Sex pistols and others- Steve Jones could take care of himself.

the fact is the Stranglers were actually "mellow" to start with- the "soft-rock group" self-description from 1974.

check out the authorised Stranglers biography "No mercy" for the story of how they adapted their sound and image to tie in with punk.

[Matt Till]

The second I saw a thread called "SID" I knew this thread would be trouble.

[lungfish]

Their original bassist, Glen Matlock, i think his name wasn't all that bad. I watched "The filth and the fury" a while ago and was actually reasonably impressed by him,, he seemed like better character than the rest of the band as well. From what i saw of Sid he was a bit of a dropkick, winging about his heroin addiction, and generally acting like a spoilt brat.

Who else thinks he murdered his girlfriend?

[OiBass]

Everyone wants to rag on Sid-But you should realize he was he was the first "celebrity"
bass players, that is, known to people other
than those into music. Before I discovered
Punk (and Sid), I never wanted to be a Bass
player. All the bands I dug (Stones,Zep,Who) had
had Bass players who, despite being amazing
musicians, stood quietly in the backround and
exuded no star quality at all, getting no press,
being put in the rear of all promo photos, etc.
Some think this is the natural place of the Bass
player. Heck with that noise! Bass players should
rock out and get just as much recognition as the
rest of the band (well, more than drummers).
I think Sid gave the Bass role some attention-
He inspired me to be a Bass player.

[baba]

Originally posted by OiBass
Everyone wants to rag on Sid-But you should realize he was he was the first "celebrity"
bass players, that is, known to people other
than those into music. Before I discovered
Punk (and Sid), I never wanted to be a Bass
player. All the bands I dug (Stones,Zep,Who) had
had Bass players who, despite being amazing
musicians, stood quietly in the backround and
exuded no star quality at all, getting no press,
being put in the rear of all promo photos, etc.

There's this guy named Paul McCartney......I think he beat Sid to the punch by a few years.

[Aaren Double J]

Punk and punk rock aren't the same thing, surely.

[cassanova]

Originally posted by OiBass
Everyone wants to rag on Sid-But you should realize he was he was the first "celebrity"
bass players, that is, known to people other
than those into music. Before I discovered
Punk (and Sid), I never wanted to be a Bass
player. All the bands I dug (Stones,Zep,Who) had
had Bass players who, despite being amazing
musicians, stood quietly in the backround and
exuded no star quality at all, getting no press,
being put in the rear of all promo photos, etc.

Lemme see if I am understanding this correctly.

Despite the other cats being much better, more competent bassists, who could play their asses off, you choose some guy who pretty much stunk to be you're driving force?