Stuart Zender and Warwick

[Ben Wilkie]

So it seems Stuart Zender is having troubles with Warwick over his sig bass. Read about it here:

http://www.stuartzender.net/forum/sh...2635#post82635

and here:

http://www.facebook.com/StuartZenderOfficialFanPage

For those who can't be bothered with the links, it SEEMS as though Warwick are ripping Stuart off by not giving him any of their takings from sales on the signature bass (which I would love to own!), but they will be giving him some royalties from the forthcoming RockBass version.

What do people think?

[One Bad Monkey]

I think there are a lot of pieces missing here that we don't - and probably won't - hear about.

One of the posters on his FB brought up a good point though. The Rockbass version would stand to make a lot more money for Stu, given that it would be more accessible to up-and-coming musicians who can't afford a 4k bass right off the bat.

[Ben Wilkie]

I should also add that Stuart's playing made me go for a Warwick, so his disappointment with them could be a pretty big thing considering IMO that he really helped get Warwick basses into the spotlight in the 90s.

[Ben Wilkie]

Originally Posted by One Bad Monkey

I think there are a lot of pieces missing here that we don't - and probably won't - hear about.

One of the posters on his FB brought up a good point though. The Rockbass version would stand to make a lot more money for Stu, given that it would be more accessible to up-and-coming musicians who can't afford a 4k bass right off the bat.

I agree, I think the RockBass version could be huge - if only for the name and the cool/unique body design. Given the big leap in the quality of RockBass' products this year, I think it could be a really great instrument.

[One Bad Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ben Wilkie

I should also add that Stuart's playing made me go for a Warwick, so his disappointment with them could be a pretty big thing considering IMO that he really helped get Warwick basses into the spotlight in the 90s.

When I wrote my endorsement letter to 'Wick in August, Stu's name was on my list of "people in the 90s that got me interested in Warwick" alongside Stefan Lessard and Melvin Gibbs (of Rollins Band).

Originally Posted by Ben Wilkie

I agree, I think the RockBass version could be huge - if only for the name and the cool/unique body design. Given the big leap in the quality of RockBass' products this year, I think it could be a really great instrument.

I'm very impressed with the new RB line as well. A huge step up from the previous versions.

If you think about it too - and bear in mind, this is all speculation - Stu could stand to make a lot more per instrument with the RB. There's no R&D that will go into it comparatively, which will make it more profitable. Especially since the price point - again, I'm assuming - could be down around 1k, that would be a lot easier for people to swallow, thus buying more of them.

[jmattbassplaya]

I agree with the notion that he`d probably make the most money from the RB line, however, I know I`d be quite upset if I was making a signature model with a company only to later find out I`m not getting money from something that is selling dominantly because of my name and its uniqueness associated with me. That also said, I actually am one of Stu`s friends on FB and there`s been a few times where I`ve questioned his comprehension abilities based completely on how he writes in his status updates. I wouldn`t be surprised if Warwick explained the money situation early on and Stu didn`t pay close enough attention or read the fine print.

[bass12]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I wouldn`t be surprised if Warwick explained the money situation early on and Stu didn`t pay close enough attention or read the fine print.

That would have been the job of Zender's lawyer. Anyway, sounds as if Warwick are still having a hard time with the "ethics" thing. I'll admit that I feel a bit better knowing that their "little customers" aren't the only ones who get screwed by the company.

[Papersen]

Although I admire SZ a LOT as a bassist, this is a private, commercial matter, that he and his lawyer should handle on their own.

Or do we know how much Fender pays Geddy for each of his sig models that`s sold ? Same for every brand / endorser we know.

I`m sorry for SZ but I really don`t care.

[Lichtaffen]

Maybe he made that deal with Warwick back when he was actually playing in a visible band and there was a possibility that the bass would sell due to actually being attributed to a working musician. He sounds like a dead beat to me; according to his facebook page, he is being evicted and now he feels his deal was unfair. Also, according to him, they've sold 16 units of his signature bass. 16? The way I see it, Warwick should be bashing him. How can you make a return on 16 basses sold that you've put all this R&D into? If I were Warwick I'd tell him to get famous again or see you later. Total deadbeat. Sorry, he's a great player, but not the first musician who ended up being a deadbeat.

Seriously, that's like an athlete getting a Nike endorsement and then not only quitting the team he was playing on, but dropping out of the sport indefinitely. It's a waste from the company's point of view.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by bass12

That would have been the job of Zender's lawyer. Anyway, sounds as if Warwick are still having a hard time with the "ethics" thing. I'll admit that I feel a bit better knowing that their "little customers" aren't the only ones who get screwed by the company.

Sadly but again, that`s not something I think Stu would of thought all the way through and I could see him doing this deal without the aid of a lawyer. Again, I`m basing this off of a lot of very objective/subjective observations, but I honestly think he`s quite naive with how the world works - even at his age.

That said, I will agree with you on Warwick and their ethics. I love their basses to death, but it seems the more I learn about this company and their dealing with individual customers, as well as other aspects of their business policies, the less and less I end up liking them.

[coronado3]

Perhaps he should just start playing Spector basses! Same shape after all.....

[bass12]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

Maybe he made that deal with Warwick back when he was actually playing in a visible band and there was a possibility that the bass would sell due to actually being attributed to a working musician. He sounds like a dead beat to me; according to his facebook page, he is being evicted and now he feels his deal was unfair. Also, according to him, they've sold 16 units of his signature bass. 16? The way I see it, Warwick should be bashing him. How can you make a return on 16 basses sold that you've put all this R&D into? If I were Warwick I'd tell him to get famous again or see you later. Total deadbeat. Sorry, he's a great player, but not the first musician who ended up being a deadbeat.

Seriously, that's like an athlete getting a Nike endorsement and then not only quitting the team he was playing on, but dropping out of the sport indefinitely. It's a waste from the company's point of view.

To be fair, that's on Warwick. They are the ones who decided to produce a signature model for a player more than a decade after his commercial prime. The point is, they're using Zender's name to make money and he should be getting a cut. I personally think the folks at Warwick are idiots for producing a signature bass for a guy who has been out of the public eye for as long as Zender has been, but hey - that's their problem. Then again, for all we know, Zender got paid a flat rate for the use of his name and design. It's all speculation, as far as we are concerned...

[Lichtaffen]

Originally Posted by bass12

To be fair, that's on Warwick. They are the ones who decided to produce a signature model for a player more than a decade after his commercial prime. The point is, they're using Zender's name to make money and he should be getting a cut. I personally think the folks at Warwick are idiots for producing a signature bass for a guy who has been out of the public eye for as long as Zender has been, but hey - that's their problem. Then again, for all we know, Zender got paid a flat rate for the use of his name and design. It's all speculation, as far as we are concerned...

I didn't realize he'd been out of Jamiroquai for that long. True, Warwick should have thought of this. Maybe SZ is a more popular bass player in Europe than in the US.

All I can say is that you just don't bring up legal matters on Facebook. That is a very poorly executed way of getting sympathy. Plus, I'm sure he's still under contract with Warwick. And 'eviction' (as he mentions on his Facebook page)? Didn't Jamiroquai put out a few multiplatinum releases with SZ? Where is he getting evicted from, a palace?

[coronado3]

Just saw a pic of the SZ warwick.... Nope, nothing like a Spector! I thought SZ always played streamer models.....

[AaronD]

From what I heard he did play streamers alot. Hopefully he will return to the public eye when he releases his new album

[Ben Wilkie]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

Didn't Jamiroquai put out a few multiplatinum releases with SZ? Where is he getting evicted from, a palace?

From what I understand, he left Jamiroquai for something to do with not being credited with songwriting and producing where it was due. In the music industry, this is a big deal - for example, Pete Wentz takes a huge cut of Fall Out boy's profits because he is credited as the sole lyricist and composer for many of their songs. If Stuart was not listed as producer or composer where he was supposed to be, it's possible he wasn't getting his cut.

In any case, I think the RB model will be great, and it's a shame if Warwick isn't acting ethically. Even IF a share of the profits wasn't in the original contract, it just seems like bad form to do this to an artist who has done so much for Warwick's publicity.

[Bass_Thumper]

Does anyone else think that the SZ model looks like a Fortress with a little modding to the horns? Maybe this far after the fact, he should just be happy that they are keeping his name out there with advertizing.

[alfredpunkjazz]

It is a "regular" streamer, with a flat body and some craving on the horns.

[Bass_Thumper]

Originally Posted by alfredpunkjazz

It is a "regular" streamer, with a flat body and some craving on the horns.

I don't know, looks more like a Fortress to me than a Streamer. Just my opinion.

[boomtisk]

Man, those Facebook entries made me cringe. Private matters like this really don't belong there, at least I wouldn't do it. But then again, I can't stand the Social Networking thing anyway.