There are a lot of Great Bass Players in the world.

[Bruce Lindfield]

And in the past, there have been even more. And it's possible to have a large number of favourites for different reasons.

So why do we always have to have 'xxxxx' vs. 'yyyyyy' or who is the best? Surely it's best to listen to as many great players as you can and not limit yourself in terms of influences and ideas for playing?

As far as I'm concerned, I want to listen to Jaco, Stanley Clarke, John Patitucci, Jah Wobble, Marcus Miller etc etc. and like their music for different reasons. Plus comparisons seem to be possible, but not to say that one is a "better" player than another - they're all great in their own way.

Because I like Jaco why would that mean I have to like somebody else any less? To say there is only one person who's the best, just makes no sense to me - it would be like living in a world where I'm only allowed to eat one thing - like chocolate - if that was the case, I'm sure I would become heartily sick of it in a very short time!

And as that is undoubtedly the case, what purpose can possibly be served by having debates to this end?

[Bass Guitar]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
As far as I'm concerned, I want to listen to Jaco, Stanley Clarke, John Patitucci, Jah Wobble, Marcus Miller etc etc. and like their music for different reasons.

My sentiments exactly. Just because a bassist has better "chops" does not automatically mean they are a better bassist. Every bassist is unique in their own way, and we can always learn from every bassist we listen to as well as each other.

[bassmonkeee]

But, Bruce, don't you get it? Flea is cool, so he must be a better bass player! I mean, he plays naked...

Yeah, I never understood the whole 'x vs y--who is better' thing, either. I remember when the guitar magazines would have the "Jimi Hendrix, or Randy Rhoads," or the "Van Halen vs Malmsteen" issues. I thought it was silly then, too.

I just try to ignore these debates. I use my "turn the channel" technique--I just don't open those threads....

[Richard Lindsey]

Agree completely. I ignore those threads. They seem to exemplify one of the more spectacular ways of missing the point of music entirely.

It's about like arguing about whether enchiladas are better than sushi. You may *like* one more than another, but what does that have to do with better or worse?

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by Richard Lindsey
Agree completely. I ignore those threads. They seem to exemplify one of the more spectacular ways of missing the point of music entirely.

I try, but in some forums, like this one, you come along some days and all you see are threads like this. I suppose it's easy and a lowest common denominator thing. Whereas, it's harder to say what it is that makes a player's sound unique or what they have contributed to bassplaying - like Jaco's artificial harmonics or Marcus' double thumbing and bright active sound.

It just makes me think the whole place is really populated by people who know nothing about bass playing, but just want to tick a box or say "xxxx is great" or "yyyyyy sucks". I think there could be lots of interesting debates about, but all we get is this black/white, "who's the best" thing - how long does it take people to realise that life isn't like that?

[CaracasBass]

Originally posted by bassmonkeee

Yeah, I never understood the whole 'x vs y--who is better' thing, either. I remember when the guitar magazines would have the "Jimi Hendrix, or Randy Rhoads," or the "Van Halen vs Malmsteen" issues. I thought it was silly then, too.

I agree,
but hey, at least Van Halen plays with a lot of feel..... a thing Malmsteen doesn´t have and never will.... hes music makes me sleep

[Stingray5]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield

It just makes me think the whole place is really populated by people who know nothing about bass playing, but just want to tick a box or say "xxxx is great" or "yyyyyy sucks". I think there could be lots of interesting debates about, but all we get is this black/white, "who's the best" thing - how long does it take people to realise that life isn't like that?

You know Bruce, I agree on the futility of these types of threads, but c'mon! This forum is open to anyone who wishes to join, and as long as they don't break the rules they're free to discuss whatever they choose. If YOU don't like a particular topic then YOU don't have to read it. Like Bassmonkeee and RL said, ignore it. Talkbass is not overrun by these types of threads. There are plenty of excellent discussions here. Perhaps if you stopped perseverating on these 'vs.' threads, it wouldn't seem like such a problem.

As far as how long it will take people to learn that life isn't black & white? Probably the same amount of time it took me when I was that age.

Frankly, your constant complaining (you must be thrilled with the latest forum update. you can now have your with a single click of the mouse) is just as annoying as "Who's better: Flea or Mark Hoppus?"

Shouldn't this be in Off Topic?

[Bruce Lindfield]

I don't see this as complaining, but rather as "asking for what you want" or "attempting to redress the balance".

If a certain type of behaviour or trend is not comented on or pointed out as irritating then how are people going to know that what they are doing is annoying some people?

If everybody only ever says positive things about everything, then it just carried on regardless. My view is that if I don't liek something then I should say something about it and not just ignore it or else I would just be dishonest in my view.

To me this is just the same as saying - "oh ignore those vandals tearing down your garden fence" go somewhere else for a bit of peace and quiet.

My view is that Talkbass is what we make it and what we put into it and just being postitive aboyt everything or ignoring it is just going to give the message that it's alright and set a "group norm" or "standard" to which people match their behaviour.

For example there have been loads of complaints in "General Instruction" about demands for Tabs and this has had the positive effect of reducing this type of thing and sparking a lot of debates about why Tabs are band for you. If people had just ignored these, I'm sure the whole place would be swamped with - posts along the lines of "Tab this bass solo for me now!! "

We are always told in the UK that people in the US are the most demanding customers and are not frightened of asking for exactly what they want - it seems our US members are more timid than average?

[cb56]

I don't think people from the US. are timid, maybe just more able to focus on the important things and not worry about what doesn't matter. Sort of like in WAR, the object is to kill people and break things, not marching in a straight line wearing pretty red jackets.
I don't don't pay any attention to the silly TAB threads so they don't bother me, but it probably is important to the people writing and reading them.

[Stingray5]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
I don't see this as complaining, but rather as "asking for what you want" or "attempting to redress the balance".

If a certain type of behaviour or trend is not comented on or pointed out as irritating then how are people going to know that what they are doing is annoying some people?

Good point. See my last paragraph above.

If everybody only ever says positive things about everything, then it just carried on regardless. My view is that if I don't liek something then I should say something about it and not just ignore it or else I would just be dishonest in my view.

I'm not saying everyone has to say positive things. Quite the opposite. I'm saying everyone can say whatever they want within the boundaries paul has set. And I'm also not saying you shouldn't comment on what you don't like. I'm simply replying to you with my opinion of how to deal with the threads in question.

To me this is just the same as saying - "oh ignore those vandals tearing down your garden fence" go somewhere else for a bit of peace and quiet.

Now that's reaching. In no way is Talkbass anyone's 'garden fence' but paul's. You and I and everyone else are guests here. Through moderation paul decides when 'vandalism' is occuring here and appropriate action is taken, whether it's deleting the thread or banning the member. But last I checked, the 'vs.' threads are fair game here.

My view is that Talkbass is what we make it and what we put into it and just being postitive aboyt everything or ignoring it is just going to give the message that it's alright and set a "group norm" or "standard" to which people match their behaviour.

Right. It's what WE make it. Every member. Not just you. And again, I think it is allright. As much as you or I or others might depise certain topics, there are other members who do want to discuss those things, and the have just as much a right to be here as we do. The beauty is that we're free to NOT participate in those discussions.

For example there have been loads of complaints in "General Instruction" about demands for Tabs and this has had the positive effect of reducing this type of thing and sparking a lot of debates about why Tabs are band for you. If people had just ignored these, I'm sure the whole place would be swamped with - posts along the lines of "Tab this bass solo for me now!! "

But if a majority of members frowned upon these 'please tab it for me' threads and ignored them, well, you know what happens to posts that get no responses.

We are always told in the UK that people in the US are the most demanding customers and are not frightened of asking for exactly what they want - it seems our US members are more timid than average?

I'm not sure I get how this factors in. If you think my being tolerant of others and to all types of discussion is somehow indicative of all US posters being especially timid, then your logic is terribly flawed.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by Stingray5
Right. It's what WE make it. Every member. Not just you. And again, I think it is allright. As much as you or I or others might depise certain topics, there are other members who do want to discuss those things, and the have just as much a right to be here as we do. The beauty is that we're free to NOT participate in those discussions.

Well I'm putting my point of view - you seem to be saying that I shouldn't put my view and should rather ignore things I don't like. My view is that if everybody just ignores things they don't like, then we're not making anything of it! We're just leaving it to the "virtual vandals" to do as they will.

My point is that if I ignored everything I didn't like on TB then I would just not come here at all!! But the point is that, it has improved and has developed and this has been on the basis of people saying what they liked and what they didn't like, but not from just people ignoring stuff - on that basis, 99.99% of the world's population are ignoring TalkBass - so what comment are they making?

[Stingray5]

No! Again I'm not saying don't present your views. I'm responding to them with my ideas on the subject, my suggestions. After all you did post with the intent of having a discussion, yes?

OK I'll break it down to the most basic level. Your original question was:

So why do we always have to have 'xxxxx' vs. 'yyyyyy' or who is the best?

And my answer is, because there are active members of talkbass who wish to participate in those threads, and are free to do so.

Likewise you are free to respond in those threads your displeasure with them. But instead of calling for these types of threads to cease, wouldn't it be more productive to use that opportunity to show the posters in question the err of their ways? And if you don't want to do that, what's the harm in steering clear of them?

[Angus]

Whoooosh

[Eric Cameron]

Originally posted by Angus
Whoooosh

I apologize for that, Angus saw a plane out his window and he got sidetracked.

[john turner]

shouldn't this be in bassists?

whooooosh!

[Angus]

But this isn't about Bassists anymore!

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
I don't see this as complaining, but rather as "asking for what you want" or "attempting to redress the balance".

If a certain type of behaviour or trend is not comented on or pointed out as irritating then how are people going to know that what they are doing is annoying some people?

Talking about things that irritate you is not complaining?

If everybody only ever says positive things about everything, then it just carried on regardless. My view is that if I don't liek something then I should say something about it and not just ignore it or else I would just be dishonest in my view.

By all means complain... but why pretend you're not complaining?

To me this is just the same as saying - "oh ignore those vandals tearing down your garden fence" go somewhere else for a bit of peace and quiet.

To me it's like being in a public place and overhearing a conversation I'm not interested in. I move on. Talkbass is not solely for your amusement or mine, it's for members.

My view is that Talkbass is what we make it and what we put into it and just being postitive aboyt everything or ignoring it is just going to give the message that it's alright and set a "group norm" or "standard" to which people match their behaviour.

Why is it not "alright"? Who does it hurt? Did you bring this to the moderators' attention

For example there have been loads of complaints in "General Instruction" about demands for Tabs and this has had the positive effect of reducing this type of thing and sparking a lot of debates about why Tabs are band for you. If people had just ignored these, I'm sure the whole place would be swamped with - posts along the lines of "Tab this bass solo for me now!! "

Some people like Tabs, I don't but I'm also not the Tab Police. Hmmm...

Suppose you (rhetorically speaking) don't read ( I know, mortal shame and no appearances in public allowed, self-flogging to ensue) and need to learn a song that for whatever reason you can't figure out by ear. Why should it concern me how you accomplish this?

We are always told in the UK that people in the US are the most demanding customers and are not frightened of asking for exactly what they want - it seems our US members are more timid than average?

We don't discuss people of the UK. Hmmm.... timid AND self-centered As far as asking for what they want, maybe we don't want what you want.

Ya think?