Trying Something New

Phil Smith · #1 05-20-2001, 03:46 PM

Okay here it goes..

I thought it would be a good idea to post a link to a excerpt of a bass solo for a general discussion of the solo and of the player. If you don't like it or understand it or whatever, don't just say "it sucks", tell us why you feel that way, similiarly if you like it, tell us why you feel that way as well. Hopefully this will be the first in a series that everyone can participate in.

The name of the tune is "Nefertiti", written by Wayne Shorter, the bassist is Stanley Clarke, the chord progression is as follows:

/ AbMaj7(#11) / DbMaj7(#11) / G-7b5 / C7b9 /

/ CbMaj7 / Bb-11 / AMaj7(#11) / Eb7b9#11 /

/ EMaj7(#11) / A7sus4 / D7#9 / Bb / E7#11 /

/ E7sus4 / Eb7(#11) / A7b913 / A7b913 /

Legend:

- = Minor
b = Flat
# = Sharp

Excerpt location:

http://www.angelfire.com/my/musicstuff/BassSolo.html

Moderators, if this is deemed to be not okay, i.e. copyright issues, etc, etc, feel free to delete this, I'll understand, it's just an experiment.

Phil

ka-tet · #2 05-20-2001, 08:29 PM

interesting thread.

I didn't like it. Having not heard the whole tune I could be wrong, but it didn't seem to go anywhere. It sounded like the standard Stanley solo that he's been playing for years. I've heard many people say Stanley can't play over changes and I would have to agree judging by the many songs I've heard with him being featured. I've never liked his tone either. It's just too small and thin, nasaly. I think he's a decent composer and when he lays down a bassline he does very well but I can't hear anything in his playing that makes me want to listen.

**Hategear** · #3 05-20-2001, 08:35 PM

I'd like to listen and respond, but my stupid Winamp powered thingy never plays the song the right way! It's always full of "skips."

Ulyanov · #4 05-20-2001, 10:16 PM

I didn't really like it either, it seemed pretty thin and whiny. Also just seemed repetitive and like he was showing off.

Bruce Lindfield · #5 05-21-2001, 02:07 AM

I think this is a great idea and would love to be able to participate in discussions - I do like Stanley Clarke's playing as well - but unfortunately I log on to TB on a laptop that won't play any music files.

Maybe you could also tell us where the solo comes from, so that if we have the CD we can participate?

Oysterman · #6 05-21-2001, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Maybe you could also tell us where the solo comes from, so that if we have the CD we can participate?

The MP3 says the album's name is "Manhattan Project" (1990)... a V/A album I believe.

The solo didn't impress me at all, it's a cool idea but he doesn't take it anywhere. Very honky tone, too, not my fav at all. I expected something more from such a great name as Clarke - but the chords are nice.

Marty Forrer · #7 05-21-2001, 05:40 AM

I think it's a great idea, and possibly deserves it's own forum. Stanley's electric has never impressed me that much, but his upright playing is awesome!

Phil Smith · #8 05-21-2001, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
I think this is a great idea and would love to be able to participate in discussions - I do like Stanley Clarke's playing as well - but unfortunately I log on to TB on a laptop that won't play any music files.

Maybe you could also tell us where the solo comes from, so that if we have the CD we can participate?

"The Manhattan Project" Blue Note CDP7942042, recorded live at chelsea studios.

NJXT · #9 05-21-2001, 09:45 AM

Although I'm not able to play other chord changes either, I think this solo is really poor (harmonically), very repetitive and not going anywhere.
I heard no "progression", just a single "pattern", probably not that easy to play, repeated again and again in different tones, with a few changes.
IMHO, it's boring.
And don't like his sound at all : I think it's too "dry".

**rickbass** · #10 05-21-2001, 11:34 AM

We are still unanimous at this point on whether this is a good idea or not.

As for the solo, some of my reasons for not liking it are the same as some of NJXT's.

Also, although I own and dig some of Stanley's stuff, his passages annoy me when he does this high register stuff that sounds like a plastic ukelele being sweep-picked.

Moreover, the point of the solo doesn't speak any idea or emotion to me. IMO, it's a technique showcase, a.k.a., wanking off. With that beautiful, slow, ethereal accompaniment, a few well chosen notes would have said more to me than the millisecond-picked clusters in that sample.

I won't ever say a musician didn't do the "right" thing, but someone with Clarke's enormous talent wasted that opportunity with flash, IMO.

leftybassdog · #11 05-21-2001, 12:52 PM

I like it and would like to have more, its great to learn new stuff !

Bruce Lindfield · #12 05-22-2001, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oysterman

The MP3 says the album's name is "Manhattan Project" (1990)... a V/A album I believe.

Is this a solo "Stanley Clarke" album - I've never seen it mentioned as such? What does "V/A" stand for?

But really I just meant that if this was to be a regular thing, then it would be a good idea to include the album details.

I have the "Bass-ic Colection" and there are some very nice electric bass solos included. I like some of the more recent tracks and I particularly like the bass tone and soloing on "Between Love and Magic" a 1995 track.

As to "Nefertiti" - it's hard to imagine it as anything other than the Miles Davis Quintet "classic" original.

Oysterman · #13 05-22-2001, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Is this a solo "Stanley Clarke" album - I've never seen it mentioned as such? What does "V/A" stand for?

V/A = Various Artists.

NJXT · #14 05-22-2001, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rickbass1

Moreover, the point of the solo doesn't speak any idea or emotion to me. IMO, it's a technique showcase, a.k.a., wanking off.

I won't agree on that.
I'm gonna sound like Nigel Tuffel (or Kirk Hammet, which is not really better

) but some soli can really take you "high", moving the whole song to a glorious pick.
Ok, I know it's a very fuzzy arguing

and I really hate when a solo is just a show case for the musician's technique but sometimes ... it can be a great value to a song/piece, if it develops some kind of emotion, or seems to express something from the musician who's playing it.

Phil Smith · #15 05-22-2001, 07:25 AM

To NJXT and all,

In an effort to keep the MP3 file size a small as possible, I excerpted the last 16 measures of the solo. Having done that, I see that context is important, especially for those that have never heard the tune. This is an experiment you know!

Stanley Clarke opens up with a 16 measure solo that builds up, followed by 16 measures of Wayne Shorter blowing, followed by the excerpt that I posted which to me reaches a nice climax to which the crowd responds in kind. He's playing to the crowd and I like it mainly for the energy that it transmits, I think it does a good job of that for me.

Excerpt location:

http://www.angelfire.com/my/musicstuff/BassSolo.html

**rickbass** · #16 05-22-2001, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NJXT
I won't agree on that.
I'm gonna sound like Nigel Tuffel (or Kirk Hammet, which is not really better ) but some soli can really take you "high", moving the whole song to a glorious pick....

That's cool, Nathanael. It's what makes coming here so valuable because you try to appreciate or understand what is going on from other viewpoints.

That said, I listened to Phil's latest excerpts and I still can't get over the plastic ukelele sound. IMO, let someone with a classical guitar or a spaced-out David Gilmour sound handle it. To me, the beautiful bass is the double bass supporting the soloing.

BTW, thank you Phil for the exposure!

NJXT · #17 05-22-2001, 10:15 AM

Rick -
I think I misunderstood you.
I was speaking of soli in general (whatever instrument is concerned) and you seem to be more specific about bass soli.
That said, I'm more close to your point of view.
Bass soli can be appealing, to me, but with a bassist point of view ... a technical point of view.

So, after listening to the first part, I agree it's better than I thought. But I still don't like it ... because of the sound and the repeatitive endding.

Phil Smith · #18 05-22-2001, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rickbass1

To me, the beautiful bass is the double bass supporting the soloing.

That's actually a keyboard supporting.

**rickbass** · #19 05-23-2001, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil Smith
That's actually a keyboard supporting.

Oh NO!!! Chicken Systems strikes again! That's sickening to hear, Phil.

yawnsie · #20 05-27-2001, 01:29 PM

I'd also like to say that this is a very interesting idea, Phil.

As for the solo, I think that the first part goes quite well, but he just falls apart in the second half - loses the feeling, and ends up how Rickbass put it - just tossing off aurally. Particularly, the bit where he does the same fast riff (tapping?) over two bars - by then, it appears that he was paying virtually no attention to what was happening behind him.

I'd be good for some people who like the solo to give their opinions. It's a good premise for a discussion, and I for one would like to see a few more of this nature.