Victor Wooten and Stanley Clarke

[henho]

Yesterday I had the opportunity to see Wooten and Clarke play a show with their respective bands in Boston. It was an interesting experience. I had come to the show revering Wooten as I'm sure many of you do, and grew up watching his instructional videos religiously. I had never seen Clarke before and although I'd heard school days it didn't appeal to me strongly and hadn't listened to him in years. Wooten started the show with his band, which consisted of his brothers on guitar and keys and a fantastic drummer. As expected there was an amazing display of chops, but overall the performance somehow fell flat. THe band seemed like they were putting on a clinic at a tradeshow booth, going through brief snippets of songs while trading fast-paced solos. The technical skill started to wear thin as the songs became less pleasing. The keyboards sounded shrill and slightly cheesy. He played a feel-good song called "I found God the other day" that again somehow seemed hard to take seriously.

When Clarke came out, after playing for one bar, the tone of the entire event changed. He was playing so loud by hair was blowing back. His tone sounded rich, dark, sinister and evocative. The individual pieces of music and the entire set had a flow to it that felt like it took me on a journey, at times funny, at times serious, at times free jazz, but always leaving me wanting to see where we were going. He did a solo spot on upright that displayed amazing chops, but they seemed much more in service of supporting the music than they did with Wooten. His band was quite interesting as well; every single member appeared to be at least thirty years his junior, with two Israeli keyboardists adding ambiance, a talented and tasteful guitarist and another unbelievable drummer. By the end of the show, I was shocked at what I had witnessed. I felt like Clarke had taken my childhood hero, the person I held as THE bass god with no doubts in my mind, and made him appear downright amateurish. It felt like Wooten had done a lighthearted bit before the real **** was about to go down.

A few facts struck me about both bands. One is that you are only as good as your drummer. Thankfully both were amazing. Wooten's drummer was a rhythm machine, and was mic'd way up in the mix but with good reason. He provided the constant groove to the band's ADD shredding mayhem. In Clarke's band, the drummer was loud, but quiet by comparison to Clarke, who was LOUD. His solo spot was a highlight. The other observation is that I don't like keyboards. THe cheesy synth sounds seemed shrill and aesthetically unappealing. I longed for one of the skilled key men to be on a Hammond B3 or a piano, substituting organic warmth for tones that seemed to come right from a cell phone.

Of course music is a matter of personal opinion and my experience reflects a change in aesthetics over the years away from chops-heavy music towards more groove-oriented bits. THe experience of having a childhood idol compared so starkly with someone that seemed to outshine him significantly seemed worth sharing.

[mua]

(pardon my english, I am not a native speaker.)
Very nice. I agree fully with ur comment, haven't seen Stanley nor Vic live, wonder if I ever will, but things u have said I fully understand and agree upon.
I think Vic has got an outstanding tehnic, and he did change the way we all see slap playing. That is beyond any doubt, he is one of the greatest today.
But, most of the recorded material he did and I listened sound like some big jerking off over pop-culture music of today. Experimenting with rap and stuff like that? does that mean he can't make a decent instrumental or melodical line or tune?Dunno. He did few songs that I really like but majority is... let's say overrated.
When I listen to what he has to say or how he runs his clinics... that is also shallow in a way. I see him as a product of todays fast music-buissiness pace rather than the take-time and think what ur gonna say (or play) to the people.
Wish I had more time to explain it better, but this much for now

[rmayer]

Originally Posted by mua

(pardon my english, I am not a native speaker.)
Very nice. I agree fully with ur comment, haven't seen Stanley nor Vic live, wonder if I ever will, but things u have said I fully understand and agree upon.
I think Vic has got an outstanding tehnic, and he did change the way we all see slap playing. That is beyond any doubt, he is one of the greatest today.
But, most of the recorded material he did and I listened sound like some big jerking off over pop-culture music of today. Experimenting with rap and stuff like that? does that mean he can't make a decent instrumental or melodical line or tune?Dunno. He did few songs that I really like but majority is... let's say overrated.
When I listen to what he has to say or how he runs his clinics... that is also shallow in a way. I see him as a product of todays fast music-buissiness pace rather than the take-time and think what ur gonna say (or play) to the people.
Wish I had more time to explain it better, but this much for now

First, In the back of my head I'm thinking you're just trying to jerk people around with these comments, but I'll address them as if you're serious.
Maybe you should see these players live before you make decisions on their playing abilities. If you did, you would at least know that Stanley was the first to change how we look at slapping bass.
As far as Victor is concerned, I've seen him with various bands, enjoyed him every time, even at one of his clinics. By the way, I didn't find him to be "shallow" in any way. He was warm, courteous, and very generous with his time and knowledge. As far as musicians mixing styles of music, it sounds like you would be happy if we all played washtub string basses with one or two strings. But hey, That's just my opinion.

[BassBandit]

Originally Posted by henho

Yesterday I had the opportunity to see Wooten and Clarke play a show with their respective bands in Boston. It was an interesting experience. I had come to the show revering Wooten as I'm sure many of you do, and grew up watching his instructional videos religiously. I had never seen Clarke before and although I'd heard school days it didn't appeal to me strongly and hadn't listened to him in years. Wooten started the show with his band, which consisted of his brothers on guitar and keys and a fantastic drummer. As expected there was an amazing display of chops, but overall the performance somehow fell flat. THe band seemed like they were putting on a clinic at a tradeshow booth, going through brief snippets of songs while trading fast-paced solos. The technical skill started to wear thin as the songs became less pleasing. The keyboards sounded shrill and slightly cheesy. He played a feel-good song called "I found God the other day" that again somehow seemed hard to take seriously.

When Clarke came out, after playing for one bar, the tone of the entire event changed. He was playing so loud by hair was blowing back. His tone sounded rich, dark, sinister and evocative. The individual pieces of music and the entire set had a flow to it that felt like it took me on a journey, at times funny, at times serious, at times free jazz, but always leaving me wanting to see where we were going. He did a solo spot on upright that displayed amazing chops, but they seemed much more in service of supporting the music than they did with Wooten. His band was quite interesting as well; every single member appeared to be at least thirty years his junior, with two Israeli keyboardists adding ambiance, a talented and tasteful guitarist and another unbelievable drummer. By the end of the show, I was shocked at what I had witnessed. I felt like Clarke had taken my childhood hero, the person I held as THE bass god with no doubts in my mind, and made him appear downright amateurish. It felt like Wooten had done a lighthearted bit before the real **** was about to go down.

A few facts struck me about both bands. One is that you are only as good as your drummer. Thankfully both were amazing. Wooten's drummer was a rhythm machine, and was mic'd way up in the mix but with good reason. He provided the constant groove to the band's ADD shredding mayhem. In Clarke's band, the drummer was loud, but quiet by comparison to Clarke, who was LOUD. His solo spot was a highlight. The other observation is that I don't like keyboards. THe cheesy synth sounds seemed shrill and aesthetically unappealing. I longed for one of the skilled key men to be on a Hammond B3 or a piano, substituting organic warmth for tones that seemed to come right from a cell phone.

Of course music is a matter of personal opinion and my experience reflects a change in aesthetics over the years away from chops-heavy music towards more groove-oriented bits. THe experience of having a childhood idol compared so starkly with someone that seemed to outshine him significantly seemed worth sharing.

I must say you've got some very harsh words, about 2 of the most Innovative Pioneers of the bass guitar, mind you this is merely my oppinion which is the great thing about a forum such as this. I've seen and met Victor, Stanley...oh yeah I've added Marcus Miller to the mix, these 3 have played with so many different groups as their Bass Player, from Chick Correa, S.M.V., solo, Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, and the talent that's played with Bela is a mile long in itself. Here is an S.M.V clip, I only wish I could play as "Amateurous, Flat, and have such a Thin Wearing lack of Talented Skills as these 3 do" Of course this is Only My Personal Oppinion, which Everbodies Entitled to YouTube - WOW! Stanley Clarke, Marcus Miller and Victor Wooten

[D.A.R.K.]

Having seen the same tour, i agree to an extent about the sentiments on the depth of the music on this particular outing.
I also believe it is definitely no coincidence, having seen both players before in different settings. There is no doubt about their individual virtuosity, or their capabilities. The tone of Vic's set was as a warm up for Stanley, and planned as such.

[fretlesssurfer]

Originally Posted by mua

(pardon my english, I am not a native speaker.)
When I listen to what he has to say or how he runs his clinics... that is also shallow in a way.

Sometimes things are so deep (and in reality, quite simple), that to some they seem shallow.
It is that simple... sb

[Tampabass]

One's a technical virtuoso, one's a technical virtuoso AND a creative genius.

Both are generous with their time and talents, both are deeply committed to their craft, and both come off as nice guys.

I agree with many of your comments.

[Arnold]

When my teachers were in College, Stanley and Jaco turned the bass world upside down. When I was in College, I can remember exactly where I was when somebody told me to come to his room and hear "The Sinister Minister" and Vic turned our world upside down. To me Victor can do whatever he wants and I will pay to go hear him play, talk, or whatever he decides to do.

[bluesblaster]

I would have to agree somewhat with the OP, I went to a Vic Wooten band show several years ago which included his brother "reggie" I believe, I went in with great expectations and left feeling pretty let down as it really turned into a complete wank fest. Brother reggie did a solo of mostly hammer on style that went on far too long and was just annoying at best. I think Vic is much more musical in the Flectones setting, his solo show just left me completely uninspired. That being said I think the man has moved the bar when it comes to whats possible on the electric bass.

As for Mr. Clarke, I saw the RTF reunion a couple years back and the highlight was definitly the upright bass solo, he can still rock the Alembic pretty fine as well.

[scootron]

My wife and I took our kids to see this tour at a small venue in Dallas. My son, a pretty good five player, kept wondering why Vic was scheduled as the opening act. I told him just to wait, and he'd find out.

Vic was good. My son got to visit with him during the break, and Vic was extremely nice. Then, my daughter and I were surprised when Vic came up and sat at our table just as Stanley was starting up.

Stanley was amazing. Vic had referred to him earlier as his hero, and there was no question why. Vic came on stage to pitch in on the encore, School Days, but Stanley Clarke was clearly in control.

The last time I had seen Stanley, he was playing with Hiromi, so it was a treat to hear him play some of the older stuff. My son left extremely impressed.