The Who's Sound: Pino vs Entwistle

[sneha1965]

This post is meant to address some of the comments about Pino's performance at Super Bowl XLIV and the Who's sound in general which had been taking place in the Basses section under a post intended to discuss Pino's bass. I though it would be good to continue the discussion over here in the appropriate place.

First off, The Who's sound/writing changed quite a bit after Moon's death. Kenny Jones being a more forward, no frills style of drummer, completely changed the rhythmic style of the new material they were writing at the time, and to Entwistle's credit, he adapted his playing to match. John still had the desire to show off, but because the sound changed, he pulled one for the team and adapted his playing to match what was going on sonically.

I think Pino (though not as up front in the mix as Entwistle, and most likely in an attempt to preserve what's left of Rogers ears) does a great job in adapting to what's going on rhythmically (like John or any good bass player would) and is working as a team with Starkey. There's much sonic bubbling and percolating that's not going on now that Entwistle and Moon are gone, leaving more space for Pete to have to fill. (Reference John Entwistle An Ox's Tale) Much of this "sonic percolating" now falls on Pete's shoulders, and I think that's part of the reason why we are seeing a second guitar player on stage last night. In some ways this is not new, because Roger had filled in occasionally on guitar since the Face Dance Tour when I saw them in 1982.

Overall, the Who is a much different sounding band than they were 45 years ago when they began, but their sound has been evolving for a long time. Pete is getting older and with 45 years of touring and other abuses, I'm astounded he's able to get up there at all. Roger, though not hitting the notes he did while in his 20's still sounded in key to my ears.

OK, discuss.

[12bass]

Although I'm not a serious fan.... I saw Entwistle as almost a lead bassist, taking over the role from Townsend. He was a force to be reckoned with and had an up-front, grindy bass tone. Palladino is a mighty fine bassist, but more conventional in style and tone. He fits in very well without calling attention to himself, but comes off as a background player in a band which used to feature a monster bass role. I dunno... maybe like replacing Freddie Mercury with Josh Groban....

[eggfan]

Originally Posted by 12bass

maybe like replacing Freddie Mercury with Josh Groban....

Or Ella Fitzgerald with Chet Baker.

[sneha1965]

True. Entwistle did have to adapt his playing at least the post Moon material to reflect what was going on with Kenny Jones. I think Pino does a good matching what's going on with the drums. I think Roger most likely has a strong say in how loud Pino plays. For years he and Entwistle fought over how loud the bass should be and I'm sure Roger just wants to hear his voice again.

[arbitrary]

There was also 2 guitar players. That affects how one plays and sets up tone.

[Pilgrim]

Y'know, I heard the originals - and this whole debate has never mattered to me at all.

As long as the music is played well, I simply don't care whether it's Entwhistle or Palladino or Tommy Shannon, for that matter.

Good music well played stands on its own. I am not fixated on having every note played the way it was in the first recording.

[SlingBass4]

Apples and oranges. One can't (in all good concience) compare something done 30-40 years ago to what's being done today. Factor in time, different folks, and different instrumentation - everything evolves

[svtb15]

The second guitar player was petes middle son

[oggdawg]

To me, it will never sound like The Who without Moon and Entwistle. That's not to say "The Who" as they are now sounds bad...just different.

[serein2j]

Both Pino and John are great players but when I think of the Who.... first person/sound pop up in my mind is John Entwistle.

[corinpills]

Originally Posted by svtb15

The second guitar player was petes middle son

It was his brother, Simon.

[funkythumb]

This brings back memories. I remember seeing Entwhistle's band at the Coach House in Orange County, CA back 20 years ago. John had a ridiculous amount of speakers on stage...a wall really. His fingers were flying and I could barely hear what he was doing. I went to the bathroom and as I was standing in line to use the facility I could finally hear the bass notes clearly. It took a bathroom wall to help me filter the sound and hear his notes!

[sneha1965]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is the sound didn't just change overnight with Pino. It's been evolving for a while now with the first change taking place with Kenny Jones. Any time a personal change happens things change musically. Apples to Oranges, neither being less than the other, but a change that has been in the making for over 32 years.

[Steve]

Pino is really stuck in the classic damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario with The Who. If he does his thing people call it sacriledge, if he tries to be a parrot, he'll never equal the original and people will still throw rocks.

Clearly, his resume and body of work is unassailable by anyone with a brain.

If The Who wanted a parrot, they could have found any number of excellent birds on youtube that would have been happy to weather the storm and do it for free.

The rhythm section they had was irreplaceable. They recognized that and chose to move forward as best as they could. Judging by the multiple threads of hysteria around here, maybe we should as well.

Just a thought.

[lowendblues]

The Who died with Entwistle.

[Ric5]

Playing live Entwistle had a real aggressive attack on the bass. Most bass players don't play that way. A couple who do would be Chris Squire and Geddy Lee.

[Opas]

I think Billy Sheehan would have been a better fit.

[Tim C.]

+1 Billy Sheehan. Hell, he even had a tribute to The Who called "Amazing Journey." He would have brought a real active presence to their live sound without necessarily copying Entwistle.

[Rock-Bassman]

I'd say they should've went with Adam Clayton, but no, The Who didn't die with entwisle... they died with moon. Well, the original who died with Moon, there kinda like Alice in Chains now... Really good in their own right but a band isnt the same band if they lose a vital member (or 2)

[Tim C.]

Originally Posted by Rock-Bassman

I'd say they should've went with Adam Clayton

What?

Adam Clayton makes Pino look like John Entwistle.