Why all the Tal smack talk?

[chicagodoubler]

Every time I hear her name there's talk of her success being attributed to her looks, age and gender.

Nobody gets to play with Vinnie and Chick because of these things. Between the two of them and Jeff Beck, those cats have played with the "who's who" of music deity. You just don't get there without the musical goods. Ever seen these guys in person? Chick especially has never been one to rely on image...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8CP12cyGU8


I just wanted to start a thread praising her for her groove, harmonic complexity, and the outpouring of joy I hear in her playing... as I said in another thread, I'd be happy to sub a gig to her any day of the week. Not true of many of the chopsier fellas out there these days. There's certainly guys with more chops, but typically there's that nasty ego that goes along with it. Tal seems humble enough not to vibe cats off the stage. This quality alone gets you farther in the industry than nearly anything else. Who wants to be on the bus with a prick?

Rant on.

[Droot]

Dude, anybody talking crap about Tal is obviously not familiar with her work and therefore is ignorant.
DRoot

[msiner]

Why all the Tal crap talk?

jealousy

[Bassenstien]

Originally Posted by msiner

jealousy

+1

[Godbody]

I don't think Tal is good looking; therefore she must be talented.

[chicagodoubler]

Godbody, by that logic system I should be Jaco.

+3 jealousy. I'd love to have played with Chick when I was in high school. I actually tried... he politely turned me down.

[msiner]

I think she is great. She doesn't have any sort of playing gimmick, so I think that is why a lot of people aren't initially impressed with her. They simply see what she played and say, "I could play that, she is nothing special". It should be obvious from listening to her play and seeing the kind of people that choose to play with her that she knows how to groove, but that kind of skill is hard to impress on some people without playing with her or seeing her live. I really respect the path she is taking for her career. She is clearly in the music game for the long haul because she is surrounding herself with highly respected musicians. I expect we will be talking about her here on TB for many years to come.

[SundanceChile]

Since we skipped a number, +2 on jealousy.

She's got chops. Groovin' chops. Period. Do a blind test with her and another random bassist if you think looks get in the way of her playing.

[Lo end PUNCH]

Obviously you haven't actually read all the comments in the past threads involving Tal my friend. Didn't really see anyone say she wasn't talented to my knowledge, but more of a defense of her comparison to another great player and band that someone half-a$$ed comments slighted. Calm down, age, looks, gender does have a lot of pull when combined with lets say, "the same talent many other players out there have"?, especially a talent that many posters on here recognized being still in development, I wholeheartedly agree, and trust me sir, I bear no jealousy against any bass player in exsistance. The same thing happens when discussions about slap get heated, that word(jealousy) seems to creep in there, but people get bent all out of shape in that sense too.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Lo end PUNCH

Obviously you haven't actually read all the comments in the past threads involving Tal my friend. Didn't really see anyone say she wasn't talented to my knowledge, but more of a defense of her comparison to another great player and band that someone half-a$$ed comments slighted. Calm down, age, looks, gender does have a lot of pull when combined with lets say, "the same talent many other players out there have"?, especially a talent that many posters on here recognized being still in development, I wholeheartedly agree, and trust me sir, I bear no jealousy against any bass player in exsistance. The same thing happens when discussions about slap get heated, that word(jealousy) seems to creep in there, but people get bent all out of shape in that sense too.

+1, I have never read any post that said she was not talented. The criticisms all revolved around whether or not she was truly exceptional compared to some other younger players who have not gotten the run that she has recieved.

Also that thread where somebody said she would elevate the Roots playing was just silly. Both Owen Biddle and Hub are great players who are very well trained and take backseat to no one.

[chicagodoubler]

Not speaking exclusively of TB... Haven't read the entire volume of lore on her here. Gotta practice and eat, too.

I very rarely hear anyone say exclusively positive things about her, and the gender/ age thing is silly.

Mozart had written symphonies by his late teens and performed in the courts of Kings and Queens. In that context, her accomplishments are actually quite commonplace for her age. Not to mention Billy Strayhorn and Tony Williams. WOW.

Gender? What about Carol Kaye? She's on more hits than Elvis and she can still kick the poo out of 99.5% of the people on this forum. She had to deal with this crap back in the day. This is the 21st century, y'all.


It'll be great when Tal gets a little older and we can just talk about "the grooving bass player Tal" without attaching the other stuff as a qualifier.


Rock on. No vibing. Just music and awesomeness.



FWIW, I've taught literally hundreds of young bassists at some fine music schools, sent some off to Berklee and fantastic careers, and still to this day have not heard an 18 year old play with more taste and joy and beauty. She deserves everything she has earned on her merits alone.

One more thing- she's proof that it take more than just raw chops to make it. There may be guys who can play faster and more intricate solo lines with flash and power but that just ain't what most bandleaders want these days. They want someone who can play like Tal, apparently.

[UncleBalsamic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

+1, I have never read any post that said she was not talented. The criticisms all revolved around whether or not she was truly exceptional compared to some other younger players who have not gotten the run that she has recieved.

Also that thread where somebody said she would elevate the Roots playing was just silly. Both Owen Biddle and Hub are great players who are very well trained and take backseat to no one.

+1

[anonymous101511]

she's a good guitar player that plays bass. Very good for her age.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

Not speaking exclusively of TB... Haven't read the entire volume of lore on her here. Gotta practice and eat, too.

I very rarely hear anyone say exclusively positive things about her, and the gender/ age thing is silly.

Mozart had written symphonies by his late teens and performed in the courts of Kings and Queens. In that context, her accomplishments are actually quite commonplace for her age. Not to mention Billy Strayhorn and Tony Williams. WOW.

Gender? What about Carol Kaye? She's on more hits than Elvis and she can still kick the poo out of 99.5% of the people on this forum. She had to deal with this crap back in the day. This is the 21st century, y'all.


It'll be great when Tal gets a little older and we can just talk about "the grooving bass player Tal" without attaching the other stuff as a qualifier.


Rock on. No vibing. Just music and awesomeness.

I think that gender criticism of Tal Wilkenfeld is overblown. There are a many great female players that are totally acknowledged by the overwhelming majority of players. No one says anything bad about Gail Anne Dorsey, MeShell Ndegeocello, Rhonda Smith, etc. The only criticism Carol Kaye ever gets has to do with her possibly claiming some sessions that James Jamerson played on.

[willgroove2]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

Not speaking exclusively of TB... Haven't read the entire volume of lore on her here. Gotta practice and eat, too.

I very rarely hear anyone say exclusively positive things about her, and the gender/ age thing is silly.

Mozart had written symphonies by his late teens and performed in the courts of Kings and Queens. In that context, her accomplishments are actually quite commonplace for her age. Not to mention Billy Strayhorn and Tony Williams. WOW.

Gender? What about Carol Kaye? She's on more hits than Elvis and she can still kick the poo out of 99.5% of the people on this forum. She had to deal with this crap back in the day. This is the 21st century, y'all.


It'll be great when Tal gets a little older and we can just talk about "the grooving bass player Tal" without attaching the other stuff as a qualifier.


Rock on. No vibing. Just music and awesomeness.

When Mozart was alive the average life especency was about 48-50 so although he was a legit prodigy most peoples productive years happened early in life at that time. Tal is talented however for whatever reasons some people have elevated her to a status that IMO is premature. As far as the gender issue I feel the fact that she is a attractive person is a good thing because it's inspiring to other young girls and women but it still get's her more notice. Of course the same can be said about Esperanza Spaulding who IMO is a more fully realized Bassist and musician at this point but is also IMO opinion a very attractive person. The marketing campaign behind her last album made sure you know what she looked like as well as what she sounded like but you don't hear the same type of criticism leveled toward her but i also don't hear people saying she's better than let's say Christian McBride or that she should take Larry Grenadiers place in Fly.

[JAUQO III-X]

Tal is not the only bass player that people talk crap about.



It goes with the territory for what reason the critic(s) sees fit.

[willgroove2]

Oh yeah Tal is 23-24? now and I know some guy's the same age who will amaze you and have taste and groove

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by willgroove2

I know some guy's the same age who will amaze you and have taste and groove

Some find that really hard to believe.

[chicagodoubler]

There's plenty of great players out there, but ones who have filled out her sort of resume, even by 30? Riddle me that one, batman.

Whether other people were more deserving... that's tricky. Did they network like her, play their butt off with humility, or move to LA at 16?

YMMV. I'm singing praises, not hating.

Rock.

[chicagodoubler]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

Some find that really hard to believe.

Ones working professionally at her level? I really, honestly would love to know about some! Inspiration comes in all forms.