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06-14-2006, 12:03 PM
|  | Starring In: Return of Kung-Fu World Champion | | Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oxford, Ohio (Near Cincy) | | | Why I think Jamerson and Rainey lines are harder to play than Jaco and Victor
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I have been playing for 17 years, and have played a lot of different styles.
I just want to say why I think Jamerson and Rainey are better than Jaco and Victor. (Note that I am talking about the recorded album version of the following songs). I can sit and play through Teen Town and Portrait of Tracy, and Sex In A Pan and Sinister Minister with little problem. I'm not saying that these two aren't good. I'll never be able to do a lot of the things Victor does, and I don't think I'll ever be able to play the turnaround in Havona at full speed.
When I sit down to play "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" (Marvin Gaye version) and "Kid Charlemagne", I just sit there looking stupid. To try to play those songs note for note as recorded is impossible for me. Trying to hit all of the ghost notes and little nuance's that they do is ridiculous.
Maybe it is just me, but I think the two latter songs are just on a different level. Does anybody else agree with me?
Last edited by GrooveWarrior : 06-14-2006 at 12:10 PM.
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06-14-2006, 12:06 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: West Side SA | | I don't agree at all because "better" is subjective.
I love all four of those guys, so I personally see no need to think about who's better, etc. It's all apple, oranges, bananas and peaches to me.
JMHO 
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06-14-2006, 12:07 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Whitmoretucky MI | | | Just because YOU can't play a specific piece doesn't make you the measure of who is better.
Different styles and nuances in the music. What Jammerson called funk is something even the best players of today can't duplicate. Again Jaco's chops are more technical but does it make it less magical? Apples and oranges..enjoy each player and piece for what it is. Be thankful we have all those players you mentioned to listen to and learn from. |
06-14-2006, 12:07 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Whitmoretucky MI | | | Just because YOU can't play a specific piece doesn't make you the measure of who is better.
Different styles and nuances in the music. What Jammerson called funk is something even the best players of today can't duplicate. Again Jaco's chops are more technical but does it make it less magical? Apples and oranges..enjoy each player and piece for what it is. Be thankful we have all those players you mentioned to listen to and learn from. |
06-14-2006, 12:08 PM
| | Starring In: Return of Kung-Fu World Champion | | Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oxford, Ohio (Near Cincy) | | | Maybe better isn't the best word. I just know that I have a decent amount of ability, and for some reason I think the Jamerson and Rainey songs I mentioned are much more difficult (note for note).
You are right about "better" not being a good word, because I love Jaco and Victro as well. I just thought I would see if anyone else was feeling the same way. |
06-14-2006, 12:09 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Springfield, MO | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by NJL I don't agree at all because "better" is subjective.
I love all four of those guys, so I personally see no need to think about who's better, etc. It's all apple, oranges, bananas and peaches to me.
JMHO | I agree 100%. I mean you gotta love all your fruits bro.
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06-14-2006, 12:10 PM
| | Starring In: Return of Kung-Fu World Champion | | Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oxford, Ohio (Near Cincy) | | | OK, consider this an official title edit.
WHY I THINK JAMERSON AND RAINEY LINES ARE HARDER TO PLAY THAN JACO AND VICTOR.
Thanks |
06-14-2006, 12:10 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: West Side SA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by funkateer06 I agree 100%. I mean you gotta love all your fruits bro. | Yeah, but I admit, bananas are best.  
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"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
Mark Wilson is the greatest
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06-14-2006, 12:11 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: West Side SA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by crhoton OK, consider this an official title edit.
WHY I THINK JAMERSON AND RAINEY LINES ARE HARDER TO PLAY THAN JACO AND VICTOR.
Thanks | I hope you don't think I was trying to mess with you.
The new title is "better".  
__________________
"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
Mark Wilson is the greatest
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06-14-2006, 12:13 PM
| | Starring In: Return of Kung-Fu World Champion | | Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oxford, Ohio (Near Cincy) | | | No, you were right. And the new title is better than the old one. Hands down. |
06-14-2006, 12:14 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Whitmoretucky MI | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by crhoton OK, consider this an official title edit.
WHY I THINK JAMERSON AND RAINEY LINES ARE HARDER TO PLAY THAN JACO AND VICTOR.
Thanks |
That's better!
Funk baby! That's why |
06-14-2006, 12:16 PM
| | | | I hate bananas . . . |
06-14-2006, 12:19 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: West Side SA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by WillBuckingham I hate bananas . . . | 
You just don't know.
__________________
"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
Mark Wilson is the greatest
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06-14-2006, 01:15 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New York | | | im no fan of bananas either....i think one difference between the two is that, although jamerson's playing does require an amazing technical prowess, the personalized techniques of voctor and jaco are not necessarilly goign to be duplicated by everyone just form playign fo 17 years, speed and and feel cant really be learned for everyone....i guess this is what makes each of the 4 players mentioned great in their own respects...now, if you are talking about playing jamerson lines with only that one finger(the hook), then he takes the cake in my opinion...
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06-14-2006, 01:25 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by crhoton I have been playing for 17 years, and have played a lot of different styles.
I just want to say why I think Jamerson and Rainey are better than Jaco and Victor. (Note that I am talking about the recorded album version of the following songs). I can sit and play through Teen Town and Portrait of Tracy, and Sex In A Pan and Sinister Minister with little problem. I'm not saying that these two aren't good. I'll never be able to do a lot of the things Victor does, and I don't think I'll ever be able to play the turnaround in Havona at full speed.
When I sit down to play "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" (Marvin Gaye version) and "Kid Charlemagne", I just sit there looking stupid. To try to play those songs note for note as recorded is impossible for me. Trying to hit all of the ghost notes and little nuance's that they do is ridiculous.
Maybe it is just me, but I think the two latter songs are just on a different level. Does anybody else agree with me? | What you wrote here sounds much like youīr talking about two football teams. Let me make some things clear for you:
James Jamerson and Chuck Rainey are two different bass players with their own voice and way of playing! This is even stronger regarded to Jaco and Victor! Choosing the "better" one among them is completely a subjective matter.
I really wonder how on earth did you come up with an idea of comparing four such a strong charachtered bass players and musicians by dividing them in two "teams" in order to choose the better one (you didnīt make it clear if you mean the better team or the better bass player/musician)?! If you could play "Teen Town" than you should be able to play "Ainīt no mountain high enough" including the ghost notes. If not on Teen Town, Jaco played a bunch of ghost notes in most of the tunes he played so Jaco is much more than just Teen Town! And Victor Wooten is again something else. I think you need to settle down and analyse what really is bothering you when it comes to different ways of playing bass.
Iīv been playing bass for 23 years and I can play most of Jacos work incl. Teen Town, as I also can play most of Jamersons work incl. Ainīt no mountain high enough, and to me, Jacos work is way more difficult technique wise and musically wise as well. |
06-14-2006, 02:17 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: West Side SA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by gkbass13 im no fan of bananas either.... | i'm getting zinged left and right...
__________________
"The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
Mark Wilson is the greatest
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06-14-2006, 02:20 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2006 Location: Redditch | |
Have a hug. Dont worry. I'm in slight agreement. Ain't no mountain high enough is a bit of a bitch. If you listen to Bob Babbit on the Standin in the SHadows of Motown version its a bit easier to pick out and I think its very similar to JJ's version. |
06-14-2006, 02:49 PM
| | Bass, A way of life | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC | | | I agree with most of what was said, including the title name change, I like bananas, not oranges, but I will drink orange juice........I still learning to play "I was made to love her"
never really tried to play "teen town"(scared? nah), I can play, "I'll take you there" (staples) perfectly, but it just dosen't have that same whatchamacallit, know what I mean?
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06-14-2006, 03:19 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oklahoma City, OK | | The 'hard' part is being completely overlooked here IMO. Its not whether or not you can train your fingers to mimic what any of these players produced. That can be taught to anybody with the time and discipline to seek it out. What is hard is actually creating bass lines that have just as much emotional relevance. The creative process can never be duplicated, and thank god, or half of the bassists I hear would simply be a lame approximation of what Jaco did naturally and effortlessly; wait, most of them are.....
What's truly refreshing is to hear someone who plays their own music with their own feel, and their own tone, and every thing else that makes an individual musician unique. Whats even more amazing is to steal their original ideas and filter them thru my own process.... |
06-14-2006, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ty_Boogie I can play, "I'll take you there" (staples) perfectly, but it just dosen't have that same whatchamacallit, know what I mean? | I understand, it's really hard to get play that stuff Jamerson played with a setup like Jamerson, If you listen to the SITSOM cds a few of the players get it down, but a lot of them nail the chart, but somethings missing like the version of Home Cookin on there.
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"James Jamerson was the epitome. He started Fender bassing. All that funk bassing--Jamerson was it..." -George Clinton (From SITSOM)
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